The Album Review Club - Christmas Break Until 8th January

That's just mental.
I could understand you not going to see an act live because you think the crowd will be not to your liking. But dismissing the music completely..?
I'm not even gonna ask what it is you think people that bought and like this album are like that makes you not listen.

Have you tried reading my post?

I don't dismiss their music. At all, let alone completely. I said what I thought of it.

I'll stop there and leave the other part unravelled, you have taken the wrong end of it. It is not what I 'think' people are like, it is what I have experienced them to be like. Maybe wasn't fortunate to have met you, hammer, or your circles to balance that out, but from my encounters, that is one layer of association that makes listening to their music a real effort. If the music itself was better, might maybe counter it on its strength, but it isn't.

And for the record, I wasn't a blur fan either.



Edit, responded to this before reading your next reply. Fair enough pal, and good for you. Nice to read your associations too.
 
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Think I was just responding to the fact your tone for this pick is a bit atypical for you. I'm hardly going to call you out on this one given my approach to RH not so long ago but I tend to think of you as more measured than me.

You raise an interesting point about football levels of tribal antipathy that I've never really thought about before, I struggle to think of any bands or even genres where I have that sort of visceral reaction. It might be that I simply don't go to much live music these days and so I don't encounter twats on a regular enough basis to get annoyed with particular sets of fans.

Maybe. I can't think of any other band either tbf.

I like how people telling me to just 'separate the music from its fanbase' (as I have experienced it, just to reiterate), can't seem to separate that one layer of context from my general take on the music.
 
Well you know straight away where I disagree.
Out of the list above I would have no place for Richard’s and don’t like EVH while recognising his technical ability. There’s such a thing as speed for speeds sake. EVH always gives me the feeling of ‘Look what I can do’ rather than can you feel where I’m going, come with me. ‘
AAAaaaaaargghgghh.
Richards is a stone cold genius
Richards for god.
Viv Richards is pretty cool too.

Kind of agree with you on EVH by the way.
 
I think it's interesting that so far we've not had any "bag of shite" scores and I don't expect we will. That could be because it's uniformaly brilliant but personally I think it's because, for all their attitude, the music itself is very safe. As more than one person has said it's just rock n roll and as such what's not to like at least to some degree? Ignore some of the fans and their individual personas and this music isn't going to offend anyone because there really isn't any risk involved.

The upside of this is there's no concern that they are taking the piss or cheating us. Forget the borrowing of stuff accusations, it's in plain sight and loads of bands do it. They were straight forwardly kids who wanted to form a band, play rock n roll and become fuck off famous; and they did exactly what it said on the tin. So you don't have to sit there watching a piano swinging like a pendulum thinking is this genius or is he having a laugh? It's just decent music so what's not to like?

But where I've always struggled with Oasis is how does decent then become great in many people's minds? This is where Sing Something Simple comes in.

Sing Something Simple was a radio show that ran from 1954 on BBC Light Entertainment and then Radio 2 until 2001. It was originally hosted by a guy called Cliff Adams and he had a group, The Cliff Adams Singers who sang popular tunes of the day that you could join in with. Like Oasis, it had by design little artistic cutting edge and competent, but not virtuoso, musicians. But it also happened to become the longest continuous running radio programme in the world, it may still hold that record for all I know. It did this because it tapped into a desire to be connected by music, it was virtual group karaoke in your home decades before karaoke hit these shores or the internet had even been invented. I think this is at the heart of Oasis's success, they tap into a communal desire to be connected by music and their music is a perfect fit for that. Familiar sounding and good enough to connect people and safe enough not to alienate. Imo it's not a coincidence that the song that was spontaneously sung by the crowd in St Ann's Square after the arena bombing was an Oasis song. It's the modern day equivalent of Sing Something Simple and I don't mean that as an insult.

But here's the problem for me. I'm basically anti-social and miserable (not really, I'm just introverted). I can get over myself but that would typically be through dancing, my days in a mosh pit were brief and long gone, so any communal experience is likely to be through a beat not a sing-a-long. There's a few exceptions to this but, Oasis's music isn't exceptional enough to be one of them.

To me, to be 'great' you can either be innovative, virtuoso or strike a relatable chord. Oasis are not the first two and for all that I was born and raised a handful of miles from the Gallaghers I find last week's version of a gobby youth, Mr Weller, much more relatable. I think he's had something to say about the work that Oasis never had. So I've always been in the kitchen at the Oasis party and I think that's where I'll stay. That's not really a problem as I like seeing other people have a good time. The only question is do I award extra points for their ability to do that?
 
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Asked myself this question again over the course of the day, as that comment has clearly irked a few.

Would you for instance be able to enjoy the football of Utd for example, having experienced a bad side of their fanbase? Genuine question.
Not irked mate. Puzzled.
As three spires said, not typical of your comments but I respect what you obviously feel as your experience is clearly different to mine.

Anyway to answer your question, I have a visceral hatred for LFC fanbase but still can see what an amazing team they are (at their peak) and enjoy that football whilst not enjoying their success.

In my experience folk are normally music fans rather than fans of a single band (although there might be a minority who attach themselves to a single band).
What if that wasn't the case though......
Can you imagine the polarisation in the stadium, on the Topographic side we have the Yes crew, all kitted out in DM's and spangly capes, whilst on the Hogweed side we have the Genesis MIBs resplendent in black jump suit and batwing helmet. Their UV eye makeup glaring menacingly at their sparkly foe. Let the battle commence.....

Actually, might be fun :-)
 
I think it's interesting that so far we've not had any "bag of shite" scores and I don't expect we will. That could be because it's uniformaly brilliant but personally I think it's because, for all their attitude, the music itself is very safe. As more than one person has said it's just rock n roll and as such what's not to like at least to some degree? Ignore some of the fans and their individual personas and this music isn't going to offend anyone because there really isn't any risk involved.

The upside of this is there's no concern that they are taking the piss or cheating us. Forget the borrowing of stuff accusations, it's in plain site and loads of bands do it. They were straight forwardly kids who wanted to form a band, play rock n roll and become fuck off famous; and they did exactly what it said on the tin. So you don't have to sit there watching a piano swinging like a pendulum thinking is this genius or is he having a laugh? It's just decent music so what's not to like?

But where I've always struggled with Oasis is how does decent then become great in many people's minds? This is where Sing Something Simple comes in.

Sing Something Simple was a radio show that ran from 1954 on BBC Light Entertainment and then Radio 2 until 2001. It was originally hosted by a guy called Cliff Adams and he had a group, The Cliff Adams Singers who sang popular tunes of the day that you could join in with. Like Oasis, it had by design little artistic cutting edge and competent, but not virtuoso, musicians. But it also happened to become the longest continuous running radio programme in the world, it may still hold that record for all I know. It did this because it tapped into a desire to be connected by music, it was virtual group karaoke in your home decades before karaoke hit these shores or the internet had even been invented. I think this is at the heart of Oasis's success, they tap into a communal desire to be connected by music and their music is a perfect fit for that. Familiar sounding and good enough to connect people and safe enough not to alienate. Imo it's not a coincidence that the song that was spontaneously sung by the crowd in St Ann's Square after the arena bombing was an Oasis song. It's the modern day equivalent of Sing Something Simple and I don't mean that as an insult.

But here's the problem for me. I'm basically anti-social and miserable (not really, I'm just introverted). I can get over myself but that would typically be through dancing, my days in a mosh pit were brief and long gone, so any communal experience is likely to be through a beat not a sing-a-long. There's a few exceptions to this but, Oasis's music isn't exceptional enough to be one of them.

To me, to be 'great' you can either be innovative, virtuoso or strike a relatable chord. Oasis are not the first two and for all that I was born and raised a handful of miles from the Gallaghers I find last week's version of a gobby youth, Mr Weller, much more relatable. I think he's had something to say about the work that Oasis never had. So I've always been in the kitchen at the Oasis party and I think that's where I'll stay. That's not really a problem as I like seeing other people have a good time. The only question is do I award extra points for their ability to do that?
The simplicity is part of the attraction I think.

Comparing Oasis to the Cliff Adams singers has made me smile though. Do you think Liam could have been a member?
 
Not irked mate. Puzzled.
As three spires said, not typical of your comments but I respect what you obviously feel as your experience is clearly different to mine.

Anyway to answer your question, I have a visceral hatred for LFC fanbase but still can see what an amazing team they are (at their peak) and enjoy that football whilst not enjoying their success.

In my experience folk are normally music fans rather than fans of a single band (although there might be a minority who attach themselves to a single band).
What if that wasn't the case though......
Can you imagine the polarisation in the stadium, on the Topographic side we have the Yes crew, all kitted out in DM's and spangly capes, whilst on the Hogweed side we have the Genesis MIBs resplendent in black jump suit and batwing helmet. Their UV eye makeup glaring menacingly at their sparkly foe. Let the battle commence.....

Actually, might be fun :-)

I think I'm with Coaty on this. Thinking about the dippers and the rags, I don't care how good their football is (not a worry for the rags atm) for me to have anything positive to feel about them they would have to reinvent themselves to the point there was nothing of their old clubs left. Sure I could get behind The Cheeky Girls if they started writing songs like 1963 and changed their names to Barney, Steve, Gillian and Hooky but at that point they'd not really be the cheeky girls any more anyway.
 
I think I'm with Coaty on this. Thinking about the dippers and the rags, I don't care how good their football is (not a worry for the rags atm) for me to have anything positive to feel about them they would have to reinvent themselves to the point there was nothing of their old clubs left. Sure I could get behind The Cheeky Girls if they started writing songs like 1963 and changed their names to Barney, Steve, Gillian and Hooky but at that point they'd not really be the cheeky girls any more anyway.
1963. One for the great b-sides playlist
 

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