The Album Review Club - End of Round #9 Break (page 1904)

[journolud]

Fascinating and entertaining as it is to read the eviscerating comments from @FogBlueInSanFran and @threespires (not that Thom Yorke would care) and the equally robust defence from @supercity88 I can't go to that depth either way. At the risk of alienating two posters who contribute greatly to this thread as well one can't help but wonder if there isn't an element of the intellectual posturing in the reviews that Radiohead are seemingly accused of.

This album is being held up as an extreme cynical exercise, the disconnect between the apparent message it delivers and the people delivering. That's an interesting road to go down and maybe it's not the same thing but brings to mind the old adage (or is it a new one) about not wanting to meet your heroes.

Music, most of it anyway, is made to sell and if not then to appeal to a particular audience. Whether it's the nihilistic joyless musings of Radiohead or the music by committee of Ed Sheeran. We've covered before how one of my musical heroes, Van Morrison is in real life a surly miserable bastard who has to be separated from the transcendental music that he produces.

Likewise, we all ascribe positive character traits to this City team while revelling in the flaws of that lot from just outside the City wall. Imagine the cognitive dissonance if we had an Anthony or a Fernandez or god forbid a Greenwood.

I'm not capable of the type of analysis the posters above have gone into. But I enjoyed reading it and in defence of "critics", some of the best do enhance the enjoyment of an album or a film. Funnily enough the one that sticks in my mind is Phillip French who used to do the film reviews in the Observer. They were almost works of art in themselves but I also get a lot from reading reviews online or in the music magazines. I'm old enough to make my own mind up about what I like but it's good to get an understanding of what is being aimed at that you might have missed on the kind of surface listening we tend to do. And sometimes it's worth reading a review that nudges you to revisit can album which then becomes a favourite. I hated Astral Weeks when I first heard it but it's now my favourite album ever. To a lesser extent the passionate presentation of last week's pick on here led me to a deeper appreciation of an album I had but had struggled with.

I digress. I listened to OK Computer this morning, I think I had been putting it off for a reason I can't understand. I had it on a few weeks ago but there was maybe an anxiety that having to listen to it for review I might find I didn't like it after all or not as much as I thought I did.

It's not in the best album ever lists for me but you know what, leaving aside the motives of the band, the words written about it, the analysis this is a pretty fine body of work. Airbag and Paranoid Android are good openers but it really gets into its stride for me with the next four songs, all of a mood and all brilliant.

I've always thought that Fitter, Happier was a bit pointless and not that clever but it does serve at least as a bit of an intermission after the first six tracks. The closing sections of the album aren't quite as strong but neither does it have particular weaknesses and in No Surprises has one of those classic songs us mopey types really like.

I've had an ambivalent relationship with Radiohead's later music. Kid A, Hail to the Thief I listen to less. I think I prefer those albums to be shorter. In comparison In Rainbows ( which I'm listening to as I write and being reminded what a good album it is) and Moon Shaped Pool represented a return to "form".

My favourite Radiohead album remains the Bends and there is an emotional connection there, coming at a particular time in my life. But OK Computer as it turns out, having mused earlier how many 5s,6s and 7s it would get and thinking I would be at the upper end of that range is actually more than OK and gets an 8.

 

[threespires]

Right. Now I'll have to pay more attention to these lyrics and 'themes' here, which I admit, I haven't really noticed much. I don't consider myself vapid, but for whatever reason any lyrical content, cleverly concealed or obvious, seems to have washed over me.

If you find them, please let me know as I'll be needing to add a point or two to my score.

Personally I think you're far from vapid (whoo hoo lucky you!) it's this album that I feel that about. Foggy is of the view that the narrative around it was constructed retrospectively and I think largely he's right in terms of volume of bollocks talked about it but I'm sure Yorke gave some contemporaneous reviews at the time to fan the flames which really is the heart of my dislike.

My big issue isn't the vapidity of the lyrics, I probably like more bubble gum pop than most on her. It's the fact Yorke coopted some big names into the marketing of this half finished tripe. I've often entertained the possibility that there is no cynicism in this album at all, they just bit off more than they can chew and it melted into the mess I think it is. There are moments all over the place where you think ok this is going somewhere really interesting but then it doesn't follow through. In that sense it smacks of someone trying to do something different and not quite pulling it off. They wouldn't be the first or last people to do that and there is no shame in it, Einstein said 'anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new'. So if I think there's a possibility that this is an experiment gone wrong why am I not giving it great credit?

I worked in the corporate world for a large chunk of my life, sadly if I had a penny for every time I've witnessed people adopt the approach of - well this has gone completely awry and we all know this particular pig we've created needs to be taken out back and shot and we need to own that shit; but hang on there's way too much money at stake and one way or another we are going to sweat this asset, so boys and girls let's get some lipstick stuck on that pig and release it into the wild. It's never said quite like that, at least not on record, but that is what is meant. I genuinely think this mindset has led us to a world where situations like Mr Bates Vs The Post Office occur.

Am I saying that's what happened here? No. I have no real way of knowing. All I'm saying is even when I try to give it the benefit of the doubt I end coming back to the conclusion this is a commercial triumph of salesmanship and marketing rather than anything else.

 

[threespires]

Fascinating and entertaining as it is to read the eviscerating comments from @FogBlueInSanFran and @threespires (not that Thom Yorke would care) and the equally robust defence from @supercity88 I can't go to that depth either way. At the risk of alienating two posters who contribute greatly to this thread as well one can't help but wonder if there isn't an element of the intellectual posturing in the reviews that Radiohead are seemingly accused of.

This album is being held up as an extreme cynical exercise, the disconnect between the apparent message it delivers and the people delivering. That's an interesting road to go down and maybe it's not the same thing but brings to mind the old adage (or is it a new one) about not wanting to meet your heroes.

Music, most of it anyway, is made to sell and if not then to appeal to a particular audience. Whether it's the nihilistic joyless musings of Radiohead or the music by committee of Ed Sheeran. We've covered before how one of my musical heroes, Van Morrison is in real life a surly miserable bastard who has to be separated from the transcendental music that he produces.

Likewise, we all ascribe positive character traits to this City team while revelling in the flaws of that lot from just outside the City wall. Imagine the cognitive dissonance if we had an Anthony or a Fernandez or god forbid a Greenwood.

I'm not capable of the type of analysis the posters above have gone into. But I enjoyed reading it and in defence of "critics", some of the best do enhance the enjoyment of an album or a film. Funnily enough the one that sticks in my mind is Phillip French who used to do the film reviews in the Observer. They were almost works of art in themselves but I also get a lot from reading reviews online or in the music magazines. I'm old enough to make my own mind up about what I like but it's good to get an understanding of what is being aimed at that you might have missed on the kind of surface listening we tend to do. And sometimes it's worth reading a review that nudges you to revisit can album which then becomes a favourite. I hated Astral Weeks when I first heard it but it's now my favourite album ever. To a lesser extent the passionate presentation of last week's pick on here led me to a deeper appreciation of an album I had but had struggled with.

I digress. I listened to OK Computer this morning, I think I had been putting it off for a reason I can't understand. I had it on a few weeks ago but there was maybe an anxiety that having to listen to it for review I might find I didn't like it after all or not as much as I thought I did.

It's not in the best album ever lists for me but you know what, leaving aside the motives of the band, the words written about it, the analysis this is a pretty fine body of work. Airbag and Paranoid Android are good openers but it really gets into its stride for me with the next four songs, all of a mood and all brilliant.

I've always thought that Fitter, Happier was a bit pointless and not that clever but it does serve at least as a bit of an intermission after the first six tracks. The closing sections of the album aren't quite as strong but neither does it have particular weaknesses and in No Surprises has one of those classic songs us mopey types really like.

I've had an ambivalent relationship with Radiohead's later music. Kid A, Hail to the Thief I listen to less. I think I prefer those albums to be shorter. In comparison In Rainbows ( which I'm listening to as I write and being reminded what a good album it is) and Moon Shaped Pool represented a return to "form".

My favourite Radiohead album remains the Bends and there is an emotional connection there, coming at a particular time in my life. But OK Computer as it turns out, having mused earlier how many 5s,6s and 7s it would get and thinking I would be at the upper end of that range is actually more than OK and gets an 8.

Great points/position, obviously minus the intellectual posturing thing which is very hurtful. It can't be right because it's not as if my wife, family, mates, colleagues have ever said.....oh hang on a mo.

 

[stonerblue]

He's talking about my post. Again. I used too many big words.

Bang on but without the 'big' bit

 

[Coatigan]

If you find them, please let me know as I'll be needing to add a point or two to my score.

Personally I think you're far from vapid (whoo hoo lucky you!) it's this album that I feel that about. Foggy is of the view that the narrative around it was constructed retrospectively and I think largely he's right in terms of volume of bollocks talked about it but I'm sure Yorke gave some contemporaneous reviews at the time to fan the flames which really is the heart of my dislike.

My big issue isn't the vapidity of the lyrics, I probably like more bubble gum pop than most on her. It's the fact Yorke coopted some big names into the marketing of this half finished tripe. I've often entertained the possibility that there is no cynicism in this album at all, they just bit off more than they can chew and it melted into the mess I think it is. There are moments all over the place where you think ok this is going somewhere really interesting but then it doesn't follow through. In that sense it smacks of someone trying to do something different and not quite pulling it off. They wouldn't be the first or last people to do that and there is no shame in it, Einstein said 'anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new'. So if I think there's a possibility that this is an experiment gone wrong why am I not giving it great credit?

I worked in the corporate world for a large chunk of my life, sadly if I had a penny for every time I've witnessed people adopt the approach of - well this has gone completely awry and we all know this particular pig we've created needs to be taken out back and shot and we need to own that shit; but hang on there's way too much money at stake and one way or another we are going to sweat this asset, so boys and girls let's get some lipstick stuck on that pig and release it into the wild. It's never said quite like that, at least not on record, but that is what is meant. I genuinely think this mindset has led us to a world where situations like Mr Bates Vs The Post Office occur.

Am I saying that's what happened here? No. I have no real way of knowing. All I'm saying is even when I try to give it the benefit of the doubt I end coming back to the conclusion this is a commercial triumph of salesmanship and marketing rather than anything else.

While I don't so far particularly agree with a lot of your take on this album that you have noted (neither do I yet disagree as such) There is a lot in there that I do find myself feeling about it, and totally understand. Will come back to that, and the lyrics more meaningfully.

 

[RobMCFC]

Would be quite interesting to know how many people here have had the experience of someone else, preferably that they have never met, 'critiquing' their work.

Yeah, I have written 3 books and regularly post videos that get plenty of views and comments. On the whole, the feedback is positive but you do get occasional barbs that you have to learn to live with. You can’t please all of the people all of the time, so if you please most people most of the time, you’re doing well.

Great review @journolud - and I’m in total agreement about the value of reviews, and in some cases joy of reading them. Some people just like to listen to albums, watch TV and films and them move on, and that’s fine. I always want to know how and why something was made, what did the people think before, during and after they made it, and what others reaction to it was. This is where the value of a good review comes in.

 

[Coatigan]

Yeah, I have written 3 books and regularly post videos that get plenty of views and comments. On the whole, the feedback is positive but you do get occasional barbs that you have to learn to live with. You can’t please all of the people all of the time, so if you please most people most of the time, you’re doing well.

Do you think it has in any way changed how or what you write/say about others' work? Or how you take reviews.

 

[OB1]

I still don't get it.

The division, that is.

Almost two listens in, this round, on top of multiple previous attempts at it over the years, and I still don't understand what all the fuss is. One way or the other.


While I may loosely challenge some of your philosophical qualms here, you are at least clear, and consistent, with them. As for example with the the Painting of a Panic Attack album, amongst others. I almost wonder if it would be worthile a quick revisit now, after some time and a few more albums have passed, on the back of this one and while waiting for others to catch up.

Either way, we will almost certainly come back to this, (your idea of 'honesty') in your (re)views of what I have this week firmly decided will be my next nomination. And if it doesn't get the same attention as this one, heads up, I'll be a little bit pissed off ;).

Right. Now I'll have to pay more attention to these lyrics and 'themes' here, which I admit, I haven't really noticed much. I don't consider myself vapid, but for whatever reason any lyrical content, cleverly concealed or obvious, seems to have washed over me.

I’ll be honest I’ve never paid the lyrics much attention, despite plenty of listens. I guess I have mixed relationship with lyrics because I am far more interested in how a song sounds than what it, if anything it says.

When I was much younger, I paid far more attention and I can remember spending hours with a fellow Bowie fan discussing what he was saying, quite pointless probably for his cut up lyrics. I still love some of those “early” lines of his though.

There are artists where the lyrics do stand out and impress or strike a cord but I look on it as a bonus.

When the lyrics are sung in a miserable whine, I’m not sure I even need to know what is being said.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Fascinating and entertaining as it is to read the eviscerating comments from @FogBlueInSanFran and @threespires (not that Thom Yorke would care) and the equally robust defence from @supercity88 I can't go to that depth either way. At the risk of alienating two posters who contribute greatly to this thread as well one can't help but wonder if there isn't an element of the intellectual posturing in the reviews that Radiohead are seemingly accused of.

This album is being held up as an extreme cynical exercise, the disconnect between the apparent message it delivers and the people delivering. That's an interesting road to go down and maybe it's not the same thing but brings to mind the old adage (or is it a new one) about not wanting to meet your heroes.

Music, most of it anyway, is made to sell and if not then to appeal to a particular audience. Whether it's the nihilistic joyless musings of Radiohead or the music by committee of Ed Sheeran. We've covered before how one of my musical heroes, Van Morrison is in real life a surly miserable bastard who has to be separated from the transcendental music that he produces.

Likewise, we all ascribe positive character traits to this City team while revelling in the flaws of that lot from just outside the City wall. Imagine the cognitive dissonance if we had an Anthony or a Fernandez or god forbid a Greenwood.

I'm not capable of the type of analysis the posters above have gone into. But I enjoyed reading it and in defence of "critics", some of the best do enhance the enjoyment of an album or a film. Funnily enough the one that sticks in my mind is Phillip French who used to do the film reviews in the Observer. They were almost works of art in themselves but I also get a lot from reading reviews online or in the music magazines. I'm old enough to make my own mind up about what I like but it's good to get an understanding of what is being aimed at that you might have missed on the kind of surface listening we tend to do. And sometimes it's worth reading a review that nudges you to revisit can album which then becomes a favourite. I hated Astral Weeks when I first heard it but it's now my favourite album ever. To a lesser extent the passionate presentation of last week's pick on here led me to a deeper appreciation of an album I had but had struggled with.

I digress. I listened to OK Computer this morning, I think I had been putting it off for a reason I can't understand. I had it on a few weeks ago but there was maybe an anxiety that having to listen to it for review I might find I didn't like it after all or not as much as I thought I did.

It's not in the best album ever lists for me but you know what, leaving aside the motives of the band, the words written about it, the analysis this is a pretty fine body of work. Airbag and Paranoid Android are good openers but it really gets into its stride for me with the next four songs, all of a mood and all brilliant.

I've always thought that Fitter, Happier was a bit pointless and not that clever but it does serve at least as a bit of an intermission after the first six tracks. The closing sections of the album aren't quite as strong but neither does it have particular weaknesses and in No Surprises has one of those classic songs us mopey types really like.

I've had an ambivalent relationship with Radiohead's later music. Kid A, Hail to the Thief I listen to less. I think I prefer those albums to be shorter. In comparison In Rainbows ( which I'm listening to as I write and being reminded what a good album it is) and Moon Shaped Pool represented a return to "form".

My favourite Radiohead album remains the Bends and there is an emotional connection there, coming at a particular time in my life. But OK Computer as it turns out, having mused earlier how many 5s,6s and 7s it would get and thinking I would be at the upper end of that range is actually more than OK and gets an 8.

Appreciate all this thoughtful perspective, and as I have said, no way anyone’s rapturous or otherwise view of this record is going to alienate me — it hasn’t for near 30 years. I’m aware of being in a tiny minority on this record. But to defend myself and my compatriot here, a semi-dense poseur getting rich feeding misanthropic gobbledegook to bummed-out teenagers (who are always bummed out) is bad enough. But being mistaken retrospectively for a generational panegyric on the evils of existence and a vision of a dystopian future along the lines of fucking Orwell’s 1984? That’s where my hackles get raised. What I’ve noticed is that those who like it here largely like it for timbre and mood, and I’ve already stated I’m definitely not one for that. So our aesthetics differ — no problem; happens all the time. But what no one (I think) here has done yet is try to defend it as a great work of art. Which suggests maybe that’s not important to you all (again, fine) and/or that maybe @threespires and I have a point. If it weren’t for that, I’d just dismiss Yorke as a man making music I don’t like much.

On a side note, I’d say City fans handled the cognitive dissonance of Tevez and Mendy and Barton pretty well :).

 

[supercity88]

Fascinating and entertaining as it is to read the eviscerating comments from @FogBlueInSanFran and @threespires (not that Thom Yorke would care) and the equally robust defence from @supercity88 I can't go to that depth either way. At the risk of alienating two posters who contribute greatly to this thread as well one can't help but wonder if there isn't an element of the intellectual posturing in the reviews that Radiohead are seemingly accused of.

This album is being held up as an extreme cynical exercise, the disconnect between the apparent message it delivers and the people delivering. That's an interesting road to go down and maybe it's not the same thing but brings to mind the old adage (or is it a new one) about not wanting to meet your heroes.

Music, most of it anyway, is made to sell and if not then to appeal to a particular audience. Whether it's the nihilistic joyless musings of Radiohead or the music by committee of Ed Sheeran. We've covered before how one of my musical heroes, Van Morrison is in real life a surly miserable bastard who has to be separated from the transcendental music that he produces.

Likewise, we all ascribe positive character traits to this City team while revelling in the flaws of that lot from just outside the City wall. Imagine the cognitive dissonance if we had an Anthony or a Fernandez or god forbid a Greenwood.

I'm not capable of the type of analysis the posters above have gone into. But I enjoyed reading it and in defence of "critics", some of the best do enhance the enjoyment of an album or a film. Funnily enough the one that sticks in my mind is Phillip French who used to do the film reviews in the Observer. They were almost works of art in themselves but I also get a lot from reading reviews online or in the music magazines. I'm old enough to make my own mind up about what I like but it's good to get an understanding of what is being aimed at that you might have missed on the kind of surface listening we tend to do. And sometimes it's worth reading a review that nudges you to revisit can album which then becomes a favourite. I hated Astral Weeks when I first heard it but it's now my favourite album ever. To a lesser extent the passionate presentation of last week's pick on here led me to a deeper appreciation of an album I had but had struggled with.

I digress. I listened to OK Computer this morning, I think I had been putting it off for a reason I can't understand. I had it on a few weeks ago but there was maybe an anxiety that having to listen to it for review I might find I didn't like it after all or not as much as I thought I did.

It's not in the best album ever lists for me but you know what, leaving aside the motives of the band, the words written about it, the analysis this is a pretty fine body of work. Airbag and Paranoid Android are good openers but it really gets into its stride for me with the next four songs, all of a mood and all brilliant.

I've always thought that Fitter, Happier was a bit pointless and not that clever but it does serve at least as a bit of an intermission after the first six tracks. The closing sections of the album aren't quite as strong but neither does it have particular weaknesses and in No Surprises has one of those classic songs us mopey types really like.

I've had an ambivalent relationship with Radiohead's later music. Kid A, Hail to the Thief I listen to less. I think I prefer those albums to be shorter. In comparison In Rainbows ( which I'm listening to as I write and being reminded what a good album it is) and Moon Shaped Pool represented a return to "form".

My favourite Radiohead album remains the Bends and there is an emotional connection there, coming at a particular time in my life. But OK Computer as it turns out, having mused earlier how many 5s,6s and 7s it would get and thinking I would be at the upper end of that range is actually more than OK and gets an 8.

I'm with you on almost all of that, including the rating. It's good to read that it wasn't just me who actually liked more recent music from them as well. Some of the live sessions from In Rainbows are stunning in my opinion. Although you do have to still move pass the bands constant desire to do new things like play an orange. Perhaps if Yorke used his face as a drum people may enjoy their sound more.

I'm not one to delve too deep into the context of bands or their music. That would come if I liked them more than if I didnt. If I didn't I wouldn't waste my time. The starting point is I like it or I don't. Listen again and maybe my mood is different and so is my opinion. You find things you didn't hear before.

The Bends is a better album than OK Computer, having listened to both tens of times over the years, purely because going back to stage 1 my ears like it more!