The Album Review Club - Week #147 - (page 1942) - Blonde On Blonde - Bob Dylan

[journolud]

I don’t think late REM isn’t real; I just don’t think it’s as good or interesting as early REM. EVERY early REM fan thinks this. All of us. It’s unique to the band. I mean, what the fuck do you expect when a band ditches IRS to go to Warner Brothers because no one in the UK has heard of them? It isn’t even that early REM fans dislike the later stuff. I like OOT a lot for example. It’s just that the band changed their sound radically. Stipe started enunciating; instrumentation moved away from the three piece; tempos shifted; subject matters changed. Green was their first record on the Big Label and not uncoincidentally, their first uneven record. Was this better than what they were? I don’t think so, but before they weren’t trying to be U2, so are they better because they were able to somehow become more like U2? Lots of people adore U2 and REM 2.0, so I guess congratulations on the evolution, fellas.

For what it’s worth U2 I’ve never really liked. I can see where they might attract the same sort of audience and you can throw Coldplay into that mix for me but they are another band that leave me cold.

It’s a funny thing with bands and at what point their fans think they’ve “sold out”. The documentary about Scottish music that @Coatigan posted about on here was big on the artistic integrity of bands and made quite a bit about how Wet Wet Wet embraced popularity.

Big moment for me in the dim and distant past was when the Fall appeared on Top of the Pops. I’m sure they only did it in an ironic sort of way.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Meanwhile, on REM. Makes me laugh a bit to be honest this insistence that anything after a certain point in time isn't the "real" REM. Seems they owe their true fans an apology for evolving. Although I'm pretty sure that there was discussion very early on this thread about how bands should evolve and not churn out the same stuff all the time. I don't necessarily hold that view, horses for courses and all that but as a late comer to REM, who has come to like their early stuff as well I declare that they were just getting going up to Green, a great album and thereafter we started to see the real REM... Well up to Up which I didn't like much and had me hankering back to the glorious period of Out of Time, Automatic For the People and the unexpected magnificence of New Adventures in Hi-Fi and the blast that was Accelerate.

Now there is probably a band that I loved from their early days that you Johnny Come Lately's that are into their later stuff just don't realise isn't any good because it's not the real them. Or something like that.

Really funny you posted that today. On the way home from Manchester I was banned from listening to any more Talking Heads. (Mrs verdict. It’s alright but gets to sound very samey). Instead I put a compilation of REM songs from every album they made front to back. The word that hit me was evolution. In fact natural evolution.
From early, punk influences simple songs played with verve and enthusiasm through to excellent pop songs through to sophisticated tracks like E-Bow.
They even made an album to support an arena tour. (Monster)
I really don’t understand the fan boy worship of the early stuff and the disregard for the majority of their output.

They remain my very favourite Greek band.

 

[mrbelfry]

You ARE missing the point of the film, but that doesn't mean you're wrong at all. I think "The Rise And Fall of Western Civilization" and even (especially) "Spinal Tap" are better movies about music, bands and music performances, but neither are concert films per se. I too would have loved to see the backstage, the prep and all that stuff. And I completely agree -- if you don't already like Talking Heads -- maybe if you don't already LOVE them -- it's hard for the film to carry the same weight. I liked the film for the music, sure, but also the visuals, the joy and energy of the players, the unique "introduction" of the members at the beginning, the way the back-up percussion, singers, keyboards and guitar all add a depth to the original songs (as others have written) which made many of the ones I really like better and brought life to many of the ones I thought were just okay (except Naive Melody, which I like better in its quieter studio version). But if the music doesn't speak to you, how the hell can the film? And as noted -- I can totally see how TH isn't everyone's cup of tea.

I didn't really know many of the songs on the concert but I still really enjoyed the movie. I'm happy to not have any of the behind the scenes stuff as I have a bit of knowledge about how this all works but it was nice seeing the crew get lauded at the end. The guy walking around with the light also got a bit of screen time which I thought was nice particularly as techs wear black for a reason. I did think from watching how they were playing and people swapping mics etc that the sound guy would have been working very hard cleaning up a lot of messiness. You hear it sometimes more on the video version that the synths are a bit too loud and it does feel like a few notes are being missed at times.

In terms of production I've no idea what it was like in those days but you'll see better in most venues now. I don't think you'll see as much personality though. The band were clearly having a great time but it's pretty low-key. Nowadays the band would be obscured by flashing lights and too much production even in a small venue. Coming out with a boom box and playing Psycho Killer like that was just very very cool. It's confident but not conceited. There was a clear front man but the band were still important - they weren't just backing him.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

For what it’s worth U2 I’ve never really liked. I can see where they might attract the same sort of audience and you can throw Coldplay into that mix for me but they are another band that leave me cold.

It’s a funny thing with bands and at what point their fans think they’ve “sold out”. The documentary about Scottish music that @Coatigan posted about on here was big on the artistic integrity of bands and made quite a bit about how Wet Wet Wet embraced popularity.

Big moment for me in the dim and distant past was when the Fall appeared on Top of the Pops. I’m sure they only did it in an ironic sort of way.

Ha — I am sure they did it ironically as well! REM is unusual as I really do think they had two lives. I don’t blame them for wanting to change it up and do new things, and the difference between Green — which went somewhere new but was rooted in the old — and Out of Time, which sounds completely different (other than “Texarkana”) couldn’t be starker. It just comes down to which iteration you like more. Sonically its version 1 for me, but also, it just means more because they emerged right as I was listening to more music than ever, at a fruitful time post-punk, with a unique sound that was hard to pigeonhole. In other words — college guys paying college radio rock when I was in college! If they EVER changed into ANYTHING I was probably less likely to like it than the REM 1.0 I fell in love with.

 

[mrbelfry]

For what it’s worth U2 I’ve never really liked. I can see where they might attract the same sort of audience and you can throw Coldplay into that mix for me but they are another band that leave me cold.

It’s a funny thing with bands and at what point their fans think they’ve “sold out”. The documentary about Scottish music that @Coatigan posted about on here was big on the artistic integrity of bands and made quite a bit about how Wet Wet Wet embraced popularity.

Big moment for me in the dim and distant past was when the Fall appeared on Top of the Pops. I’m sure they only did it in an ironic sort of way.

Coldplay frustrate me as I think they could do much better than they do. Maybe they are being true to their artistry but I really like Shiver from back in the day and even though Fix You is super manipulative I enjoy the manipulation

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Really funny you posted that today. On the way home from Manchester I was banned from listening to any more Talking Heads. (Mrs verdict. It’s alright but gets to sound very samey). Instead I put a compilation of REM songs from every album they made front to back. The word that hit me was evolution. In fact natural evolution.
From early, punk influences simple songs played with verve and enthusiasm through to excellent pop songs through to sophisticated tracks like E-Bow.
They even made an album to support an arena tour. (Monster)
I really don’t understand the fan boy worship of the early stuff and the disregard for the majority of their output.

They remain my very favourite Greek band.

I don’t expect you to understand, unless you bought Murmur the day it came out. We were obsessed and I was the perfect audience. No one outside the US heard of them (or much of them) til they switched labels — which is WHY they switched — when their sound changed significantly at the same time. It’s fine. It’s just not the same, doesn’t mean as much, and isn’t as good IMO. I don’t blame them and don’t disrespect them for the change. Certainly their earlier music didn’t have the market on its mind as much. Again not a criticism — I really do love Out of Time — just not the same. There’s a difference between evolving and dying and being reborn as something new. I hear evolution in their first five records, then a different evolution after that. Between the two lives it’s pretty abrupt. And I bet money Mills never liked it (which is why he wrote Texarkana).

 

[Saddleworth2]

I don’t expect you to understand, unless you bought Murmur the day it came out. We were obsessed and I was the perfect audience. No one outside the US heard of them (or much of them) til they switched labels — which is WHY they switched — when their sound changed significantly at the same time. It’s fine. It’s just not the same, doesn’t mean as much, and isn’t as good IMO. I don’t blame them and don’t disrespect them for the change. Certainly their earlier music didn’t have the market on its mind as much. Again not a criticism — I really do love Out of Time — just not the same. There’s a difference between evolving and dying and being reborn as something new. I hear evolution in their first five records, then a different evolution after that. Between the two lives it’s pretty abrupt. And I bet money Mills never liked it (which is why he wrote Texarkana).

They switched labels because they were unhappy with the way IRS was dealing with oversees sales. They also got what they wanted from Warner - 100% artistic control.
They were one of my favourite bands for a long time, I guess I started listening around Document so knew the IRS years. For me it was an evolution although of course I see the changes in style and songwriting on Green. Maybe because I didn’t really have much of a grounding in US college rock and came at this band through a UK lens.
Mills must have got over himself though as he stuck around for quite a while :-)

 

[BlueHammer85]

Coldplay frustrate me as I think they could do much better than they do. Maybe they are being true to their artistry but I really like Shiver from back in the day and even though Fix You is super manipulative I enjoy the manipulation

Parachutes, Rush Of Blood and Viva La Vida are worthy of nominations imo. Some superb stuff.

went off them after those 3 and they turned into huge stadium gig stardom with their songs being catered for that, fair play to them though.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

They switched labels because they were unhappy with the way IRS was dealing with oversees sales. They also got what they wanted from Warner - 100% artistic control.
They were one of my favourite bands for a long time, I guess I started listening around Document so knew the IRS years. For me it was an evolution although of course I see the changes in style and songwriting on Green. Maybe because I didn’t really have much of a grounding in US college rock and came at this band through a UK lens.
Mills must have got over himself though as he stuck around for quite a while :-)

I think the guys were all great friends but I always thought of Texarkana as his plaintive cry for old REM as it was slipped onto OOT. And I think @mancity111 agree — it’s one of their very best. Anyhow in whatever iteration they were a great band and I’m glad for their success !

 

[Saddleworth2]

I think the guys were all great friends but I always thought of Texarkana as his plaintive cry for old REM as it was slipped onto OOT. And I think @mancity111 agree — it’s one of their very best. Anyhow in whatever iteration they were a great band and I’m glad for their success !

Texarkana is one of their best. I completely agree.

Just finished watching Raye at Reading. She is fucking amazing.