The Album Review Club - Week #194 (page 1303) - Ants From Up There - Black Country, New Road

[Saddleworth2]

Ok. Other than, I didn't say everyone, did I.

No. You said there was no doubt which is just as definitive.

 

[Coatigan]

No. You said there was no doubt which is just as definitive.

Yea touché I guess. I said most punters, but I see I did also say that. Fair.

 

[Coatigan]

Worth pointing out the irony of, that according to them, the main reason they split was over the rock vs pop direction. Liam said he wanted to do more rock while Noel had gone all pop.

And given Noel did most of the writing, there was more pop than rock.

I will point out as well, that having already said I think this album is much purer than their other more successful ones, I am talking about the band as a whole, rather than this specific album.

 

[RobMCFC]

For me, rock music is about songs that have a larger emphasis on the instruments and instrumental passages than pop music.

As Saddleworth's definition says, Pop music is more about memorable and/or repeatable catchy choruses.

A song like Bon Jovi's "Livin' on a Prayer" definitely has a foot in both camps.

 

[Coatigan]

For me, rock music is about songs that have a larger emphasis on the instruments and instrumental passages than pop music.

As Saddleworth's definition says, Pop music is more about memorable and/or repeatable catchy choruses.

A song like Bon Jovi's "Livin' on a Prayer" definitely has a foot in both camps.

By that definition, Oasis are a pop band. Catchy sing-along choruses is their thing. And what has been the big reason for their success. The instruments are for the background sounds, and the image. The second of which has been the other but smaller reason for their success.

 

[Saddleworth2]

For me, rock music is about songs that have a larger emphasis on the instruments and instrumental passages than pop music.

As Saddleworth's definition says, Pop music is more about memorable and/or repeatable catchy choruses.

A song like Bon Jovi's "Livin' on a Prayer" definitely has a foot in both camps.

Of course there is massive cross-over between every genre. Pop music is by definition any music folk like enough to sell well and get on t' radio.

Eine Kleine Nachtmusik was the Wonderwall of its day (although it didn't make the radio back then, it did sell a lot of musical scores).

Labelling a band with a single category Pop/Rock/Country/Folk/Americana...... is a great deal trickier than my small brain is capable of.

 

[Onholiday(somemightsay)]

Worth also noting, that there is zero difference between Oasis and Coldplay. Like, none whatsoever! If anything, Coldplay are the better musicians and ever so slightly more original.

The only difference is the image, and how they managed to market themselves. Like all packaged products, the perception is easily amplified. But look inside the box, it is the exact same bland cereal. But one is considered cool and one not.

Barring the music, the personalities, their
backgrounds and overall approach to life they are indeed one of the same............ ;-)

 

[Coatigan]

Barring the music, the personalities, their
backgrounds and overall approach to life they are indeed one of the same............ ;-)

I was talking about music.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

A pop band starts off wanting to be popular. A rock band just plays and maybe gets popular.

I’m of the belief that some artists (like athletes) are motivated more by fame and money and ambition, and some more by the simple joy of playing, creating or crafting a message expressed through their art.

In general I respect the motivation of the latter artists more, but that doesn’t mean I don’t love a LOT of what’s created in the primary pursuit of money and fame. The best is when the two come together.

And plenty of artists waft between the two camps, either moving from one to the other or even going back and forth several times. Some, like Kurt Cobain, can’t handle the battle between the two and self-destruct. Others just become shite.

I’ll leave it to those of you who know Oasis better than I to decide how their journey has evolved but there isn’t much question how it started — DM was made for arenas — obviously, right? Just listen to it! — and Noel joined Rain/Oasis assuming he’d drive the band to commercialism.

I should also note that I hear plenty of influences from great bands in Oasis (less Beatles, almost more Who) but that their sound is still their own, timing notwithstanding, and that counts for something.

I don’t think they’re overrated, and I’m of no view on the joy or drawbacks of the scene/craze they created. I think their best songs sound fucking great. Whether they ARE fucking great — well, I’m not quite as convinced there.

The great thing about this thread is that if you do actually participate open-mindedly, and you read others thought or ramblings in my case, you sometimes find your own feelings expressed and you find a deeper understanding of how you feel yourself about things.
I feel another topic coming on, or formulating, from what you have observed there.
There’s definitely been a few possibilities for a future theme in the discussions and debate from this one.

Right, now off to the political threads.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I wouldn’t say it’s right or wrong but that’s not how I define a pop and rock. In fact, I’m not sure I have the words to define them but, for me, it is about how they sound. Pop does tend to be more commercial and that lines up with your definition to a degree. Pop bands do want to sell records but but so do a lot of rock bands.

I remember when it was simply the difference between an album or a singles band.

 

[LGWIO]

Greetings my (mostly) Mancunian chums.
Sadly work, alot of Union stuff and COVID had kept me away from partaking of much online over the last couple of weeks.
I did dip in very very briefly to last weeks offering, but not sufficiently to thow my tuppence worth in...but wonderful as ever to listen to Down In The Tube Station.

So to this week and one that I actually do own. I would hazard that a high proportion of middle aged men in UK probably own this or have at least given it multiple listens.

First off I like this as it gives that almost Phil Spectorish wall of sound on many of the tracks. Its strength but also its humour coming through. Many have commented on it being a case of them simply going out and doing what they want, not really caring what people think but just wanting to have/give a good time. Hooks/Tunes a plenty, irrespective of the lyrical content. From tunes that could be considered as beer soaked laddish "anthems" to tunes that appear to be piss takes...we dont care and we dont take ourselves too seriously. especially cartoon loudmouth Liam.

It's a good time album and to my ears has fewer "fillers" than many of the offerings we have had recently.

Makes me smile most of the time I listen to it ...helped by the fact that each time I do I hark back to Soccer AM and their piss take (Stones Cagoule/No WiFi)

Its a 8 from the Derry jury

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Really?
I have yet to identify an artist (group or individual) that doesn't want their art to be recognised and listened to by as many people as possible. They may choose to execute that art differently but they didn't go into this business 'just to play'. Your definition makes Led Zeppelin or any other 'super group' a pop group.
I thought your categorisation might have said something about the nature of the music....

Ever heard Captain Beefheart? The Residents? My grandma friend Vicki who plays guitar in a random bluegrass band who tours around the Bay Area? Think if they had some asshole approach them and say, “I’ll join your group but only if I can write all the songs and be the leader and we try to be as commercial as possible”, any of them would say yes? Think any of them said “Gee, I need to make sure this next tune has a declamatory chorus that everyone at the Garden will sing along to when we shine the stage lights on the audience?”

I’m sure it offends some Oasis-lickers to call them “pop” — I note a person who regularly castigates my posts but contributes nothing of value here liked your post, which makes me think I’ve struck a little nerve — but I honestly don’t mean it as any kind of an insult — look at the results! It worked for them, for us, and for millions. And that takes some kind of talent.

And also reminds me I should have noted it’s not just the chords but the ability to write those anthemic choruses. “Soooooo Sally can wait . . .” on “Don’t Look Back In Anger” never fails to give me chills — it’s one of my favo(u)rite moments in ALL of music, which I’ve written here before (and another reason I rate WTSMG higher than DM).

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

In case the reference is misplaced. Fromm circa 1.20 minutes in

Very good.
This guy knows what’s what.
Notice he didn’t include Rory in that list.
This guy knows what’s what.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I was just about to post in the Duos thread shall we just bang this in there, so everyone knows the score!

I only see one guy. If there’s a mate included, go for it.
I like it.

 

[stonerblue]

Ever heard Captain Beefheart? The Residents? My grandma friend Vicki who plays guitar in a random bluegrass band who tours around the Bay Area? Think if they had some asshole approach them and say, “I’ll join your group but only if I can write all the songs and be the leader and we try to be as commercial as possible”, any of them would say yes? Think any of them said “Gee, I need to make sure this next tune has a declamatory chorus that everyone at the Garden will sing along to when we shine the stage lights on the audience?”

I’m sure it offends some Oasis-lickers to call them “pop” — I note the person who regularly castigates my posts but contributes nothing of value here liked your post, which makes me think I’ve struck a little nerve — but I honestly don’t mean it as any kind of an insult — look at the results! It worked for them, for us, and for millions.

Ooohh smell her....

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

For me, rock music is about songs that have a larger emphasis on the instruments and instrumental passages than pop music.

As Saddleworth's definition says, Pop music is more about memorable and/or repeatable catchy choruses.

A song like Bon Jovi's "Livin' on a Prayer" definitely has a foot in both camps.

I hear you. It’s probably where my misgivings for that brand of American pop come to the surface. It probably goes some way to explaining my ambivalence towards the likes of VanHalen, and others. I was trying to articulate to OB1 earlier.

Having a foot in both camps, it can be difficult to bring both audiences with you, but some bands do it a lot better than others.
For example even with my misgivings towards the American brand of Rock-Pop, I would have it over the European versions of Pop-Rock any day of the week.
‘The Final Countdown’ immediately springs to mind.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I’m sure it offends some Oasis-lickers to call them “pop” — I note the person who regularly castigates my posts but contributes nothing of value here liked your post, which makes me think I’ve struck a little nerve — but I honestly don’t mean it as any kind of an insult — look at the results! It worked for them, for us, and for millions. And that takes some kind of talent.

No nerves struck mate at all. I simply didn’t agree with your definition of pop and rock. I think it’s silly to categorise as the overlaps and inconsistencies are massive.

Yes I’ve heard of Captain Beefheart. Even listened to him back in the day. Not an ‘Oasis licker’ either. They wouldn’t make it anywhere near my favourite bands.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I hear you. It’s probably where my misgivings for that brand of American pop come to the surface. It probably goes some way to explaining my ambivalence towards the likes of VanHalen, and others. I was trying to articulate to OB1 earlier.

Having a foot in both camps, it can be difficult to bring both audiences with you, but some bands do it a lot better than others.
For example even with my misgivings towards the American brand of Rock-Pop, I would have it over the European versions of Pop-Rock any day of the week.
‘The Final Countdown’ immediately springs to mind.

Genesis was a rock band who turned into a pop band. I’m one of those weirdos who likes them a bit better as a pop band though I do still like them as a rock band too, but I find their “transitional” phase by far the most interesting — “Duke” is my favo(u)rite of their records in total, and the only one I play cover-to-cover.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

No nerves struck mate at all. I simply didn’t agree with your definition of pop and rock. I think it’s silly to categorise as the overlaps and inconsistencies are massive.

Yes I’ve heard of Captain Beefheart. Even listened to him back in the day. Not an ‘Oasis licker’ either. They wouldn’t make it anywhere near my favourite bands.

I wasn’t referring to you mate :)

 

[RobMCFC]

I hear you. It’s probably where my misgivings for that brand of American pop come to the surface. It probably goes some way to explaining my ambivalence towards the likes of VanHalen, and others. I was trying to articulate to OB1 earlier.

Having a foot in both camps, it can be difficult to bring both audiences with you, but some bands do it a lot better than others.
For example even with my misgivings towards the American brand of Rock-Pop, I would have it over the European versions of Pop-Rock any day of the week.
‘The Final Countdown’ immediately springs to mind.

I saw both Europe and Bon Jovi live in 1989 and they both put on a great show.

We're all different as would rather listen to some average hair metal band than some of the po-faced new wave that plenty on here love :)