The BBC | Tim Davie resigns as Director General over Trump documentary edit (p 187)

blueparrot said:
Yes it would, I see the papers are issued by 73 states, doesn’t say which but I assume the refugees would need to reach these states to apply, then use this to apply legally to other countries. Might need to give it a second read to understand it better.
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Surely France would issue and with that in your possession, you enter on a flight and then claim asylum which is not only cheaper and safer but gets rid of the criminal gangs.
 
Chris B said:
No i won’t tell them. Why would I? They at least have the direct experience to make that point, so I don’t consider it offensive coming from them. Of course, being a victim of the holocaust doesn’t make you right about everything.
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So you can only compare it to the Holocaust if you've experienced the Holocaust.

Well I guess considering everyone's ages that would certainly at least limit people talking about the Holocaust...

Interesting thoughts on today's politics from a Yale History professor.

 
blueparrot said:
They aren’t entering illegally they have broken no laws they are not rapists and murderers they are victims so they have rights the government want to deny,how the fuck can you still not get that simple fact.
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Of course they’re not murders and rapists (or not all of them, I expect there is the usual share amongst them). I never said they were. Anyone entering legally with a visa should be treated just like any one else.

Of those entering illegally, I doubt all are truly victims, it is credulous to think that they are. However, under the proposed arrangements they are been given safe passage and asylum in Rwanda, in the event that the act survives first contact with the courts. The ECHR still has the same authority it had before and can rule of there is a breach of rights. I don’t remember that happening in Nazi Germany.
 
blueparrot said:
That obviously covers migrants, not asylum seekers who would have no access to visas or permission. If that was the case all asylum seekers would be illegal and they aren’t
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Until they claim asylum that is what they are
 
Chris B said:
Of course they’re not murders and rapists (or not all of them, I expect there is the usual share amongst them). I never said they were. Anyone entering legally with a visa should be treated just like any one else.

Of those entering illegally, I doubt all are truly victims, it is credulous to think that they are. However, under the proposed arrangements they are been given safe passage and asylum in Rwanda, in the event that the act survives first contact with the courts. The ECHR still has the same authority it had before and can rule of there is a breach of rights. I don’t remember that happening in Nazi Germany.
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With a visa ? Tell me what visa is this refugees should have and where they apply for their visa,
 
blueparrot said:
With a visa ? Tell me what visa is this refugees should have and where they apply for their visa,
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I have just given you the link to the documents these people are entitled to and which would allow them legal entry via a port of entry in the UK mate.
 
mattcity5 said:
So you can only compare it to the Holocaust if you've experienced the Holocaust.

Well I guess considering everyone's ages that would certainly at least limit people talking about the Holocaust...

Interesting thoughts on today's politics from a Yale History professor.

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If you stub your toe you can’t fairly compare that to the holocaust, not without belittling the suffering that took place, no.

If you see a government building camps, making people wear badges if they have a certain religious belief, you be on firmer ground.

Somewhere in between lies Lineker’s comment. I think the current situation is a stubbed toe. You think it is at the other end of the scale. I don’t agree, it’s that simple.
 
blueparrot said:
All true.Just say though most football pundits make no secret of supporting certain teams.
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Absolutely true, but they‘re also encouraged to try to show some balance.

Yet the BBC’s been happy enough to provide a showcase for jingoistic racists like Clarkson, who wrote as a columnist for right wing rags and who constantly made extreme political statements on social media . . while working for the BBC and without the BBC even sniffing at him.
 
Chris B said:
If you stub your toe you can’t fairly compare that to the holocaust, not without belittling the suffering that took place, no.

If you see a government building camps, making people wear badges if they have a certain religious belief, you be on firmer ground.

Somewhere in between lies Lineker’s comment. I think the current situation is a stubbed toe. You think it is at the other end of the scale. I don’t agree, it’s that simple.
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And the video? How does that fit with your view of things?
 
blueparrot said:
With a visa ? Tell me what visa is this refugees should have and where they apply for their visa,
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I think they can apply for a visa at any British embassy or online. It’s unlikely they’ll get awarded one, but then the British government isn’t obliged to operate an open borders policy.
 
blueinsa said:
I have just given you the link to the documents these people are entitled to and which would allow them legal entry via a port of entry in the UK mate.
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Yes but as I said it didn’t tell me, as far as I could see how exactly they could get them, it just said 73 states. I assume if it was easy the 70 % of genuine cases that we have been granting asylum to would have them, or at least some would.
 
blueparrot said:
Yes but as I said it didn’t tell me, as far as I could see how exactly they could get them, it just said 73 states. I assume if it was easy the 70 % of genuine cases that we have been granting asylum to would have them, or at least some would.
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I read it that you simply apply to the authorities in that country.
 
bowp said:
Straight to racism. Ive lived in a white majority country for 3 years out of the last 14. The vast majority of my friends are not the same race as me, nor is my wife. Being frank i couldnt really care if the UK lets "these asylum seekers" into the UK or not. When I return ill be living in an ivory tower and it wont impact me in the slightest. Personally I find it all funny for the most part. I particularly like the guys ive met in the middle east who moved to the US/ Canada etc as asylum seekers, then as soon as they get citizenship jump on a plane to the UAE etc and get an expat job and then regularly visit the country they had to leave because their life was in danger, but never seem to visit the country that granted them asylum.... seems they just wanted a better passport but hey ho.
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I have not a clue what you’re on about, you’re rambling but I hope you feel better for getting it off your chest.
Now have a nice cup of tea, write yourself a note about not drinking in the daytime and sellotape it to the door of your drinks cupboard, then go and have a little nap ;-)
 
Chris B said:
I think they can apply for a visa at any British embassy or online. It’s unlikely they’ll get awarded one, but then the British government isn’t obliged to operate an open borders policy.
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You don’t understand what the difference is between migration and asylum / refugees do you ? You also don’t understand the difference between the UK obligations for economic migrants and international obligations for refugees. Don’t blame you the government don’t seem to either.
 
Chris B said:
No i won’t tell them. Why would I? They at least have the direct experience to make that point, so I don’t consider it offensive coming from them. Of course, being a victim of the holocaust doesn’t make you right about everything.
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Because you stated that to compare the holocaust to the current uk position was offensive etc. . Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to form a different opinion if person A states X as a fact and person B states X as a fact does not seem logical to me. Alternative facts ???
 
Chris B said:
If you stub your toe you can’t fairly compare that to the holocaust, not without belittling the suffering that took place, no.

If you see a government building camps, making people wear badges if they have a certain religious belief, you be on firmer ground.

Somewhere in between lies Lineker’s comment. I think the current situation is a stubbed toe. You think it is at the other end of the scale. I don’t agree, it’s that simple.
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Why did you compare Juergen Klopp to the holocaust then?
 
blueinsa said:
I read it that you simply apply to the authorities in that country.
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I’ll read again but, assuming somebody in say Afghanistan wanted one would they have to turn up at a state that issued them as a stateless person. Or in writing, online wasn’t clear, to me at least.
 
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