The Bluemoon Song Cup 2024 - Round 4/M3 - P274 - Steely Dan (Do It Again) v Ben E. King (Stand By Me)

[hilts]

Greatest ever is a matter of opinion but anyone who doesn’t think it’s iconic hasn’t listened to very much music. At all.

Clueless.

 

[OB1]

No I didn't, .i said saying it's the best ever drum beat by the best ever band was OTT and it made me laugh. I never said you were clueless, I never said you don't listen to much music, I never called you diaper boy, I never even judged your taste in music.

I reacted to the posts of you both which were insulting and condescending. It's all there in black and white. If you see OTT in relation to your praise of a song as insulting then that is your problem not mine. BTW I'm not carrying on anything I have just replied to your posts. Like now.

You are carrying this on not me.

Ah so PMSL isn’t some sort of unnecessary put down. Right, got it.

 

[hilts]

Ah so PMSL isn’t some sort of unnecessary put down. Right, got it.

Not for me, if it upsets you I apologise and will try and remember not to use it on you again. I will amend it.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

So it's true about Americans not getting irony, haha hopeful that mate.

C’mon man. You know as well as I do you went off the reservation cuz you hadn’t thought about how the tune permeated many other genres of rock/pop. But I totally get not liking it even if everyone else does — I’m a near-lone voice on my hatred of Radiohead, e.g. Anyhow, let’s move on. Agree to disagree.

 

[hilts]

C’mon man. You know as well as I do you went off the reservation cuz you hadn’t thought about how the tune permeated many other genres of rock/pop. But I totally get not liking it even if everyone else does — I’m a near-lone voice on my hatred of Radiohead, e.g. Anyhow, let’s move on. Agree to disagree.

I really really didn't I just thought it was odd calling it the greatest drum beat ever. I'm not even sure I've ever even heard that phrase. I didn't think it was iconic before and I don't now. Not everyone gets that deep especially about bands they don't like. Some just like listening to music it needn't be dissected, nowt wrong with that though. I love the rhythm parts of songs, I play rhythm guitar. I see it as a whole. The song has a good driving rhythm and tbh imho that's its only strong point.

Like I said I didn't even originally mention iconic or have a pop at anyone's taste. It just made me laugh, I wish it hadn't now.

I concede some people think it's iconic.

Onwards and upwards.

 

[OB1]

Not for me, if it upsets you I apologise and will try and remember not to use it on you again. I will amend it.

It didn’t upset me. I didn’t actually respond to that. My original comment was deliberately OTT and in keeping with my style of music review, when my tongue is often firmly in my cheek, as Mr Fog would know and you would not.

I replied to your confident assertion that “Levee” doesn’t have an iconic drumbeat when you aren’t familiar with a track from one of the ten best selling studio albums of all time. It’s the quintessential Bonzo beat and many lists of greatest drummers rank him in the top 3 - Rolling Stone had him at #1 last time they produced a list.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

It didn’t upset me. I didn’t actually respond to that. My original comment was deliberately OTT and in keeping with my style of music review, when my tongue is often firmly in my cheek, as Mr Fog would know and you would not.

I replied to your confident assertion that “Levee” doesn’t have an iconic drumbeat when you aren’t familiar with a track from one of the ten best selling studio albums of all time. It’s the quintessential Bonzo beat and many lists of greatest drummers rank him in the top 3 - Rolling Stone had him at #1 last time they produced a list.

All this is touching on the topic of whether critics and rankings matter, and I firmly think they do, as we’ve discussed, because critics listen to 1000x the music we do, so they’re very good filters. Now that doesn’t mean everything critics like one “should” by any means, but they can be very useful guides in finding shortcuts in a veritable jungle of music to choose from. As such, if they’re going to rate JB the greatest drummer, I may 1) disagree with the ranking as an objective matter or 2) disagree because I don’t like his style or the tunes associated with as a matter of subjectivity, but he’s clearly done something right compared to other drummers to be so high on the list by those who have heard multiple thousands more records than I. I do think sometimes it’s hard when objective criticism meets subjective criticism.

 

[RobMCFC]

All this is touching on the topic of whether critics and rankings matter, and I firmly think they do, as we’ve discussed, because critics listen to 1000x the music we do, so they’re very good filters.

This is an excellent point and one I realised a long time ago. Another reason to read reviews is because some of them (a) are so beautifully written or have excellent turns of phrase and quotes and (b) some of the put-downs of material they don't like are funny.

 

[Out on blue 6]

This is an excellent point and one I realised a long time ago. Another reason to read reviews is because some of them (a) are so beautifully written or have excellent turns of phrase and quotes and (b) some of the put-downs of material they don't like are funny.

So when does a reviewer become a critic? I'm sure most of read the trio of NME,MM and Sounds as weeklies. All sadly gone now but there was much more criticism in those than any of the monthlies I read now. Mojo and Uncut very rarely have criticism in reviews. The odd 6 or 3 stars are as low as it goes. When I read a review of something new I haven't heard I'm looking for reference points in the sound or influence before making an informed choice to spend my money. There is more "criticism" in the album thread than music mags

 

[RobMCFC]

So when does a reviewer become a critic? I'm sure most of read the trio of NME,MM and Sounds as weeklies. All sadly gone now but there was much more criticism in those than any of the monthlies I read now. Mojo and Uncut very rarely have criticism in reviews. The odd 6 or 3 stars are as low as it goes. When I read a review of something new I haven't heard I'm looking for reference points in the sound or influence before making an informed choice to spend my money. There is more "criticism" in the album thread than music mags

You are probably right. Funnily enough, I never read those weeklies you mentioned. Most of the reviews I read were in Q magazine or any newspapers I picked up.