gordondaviesmoustache said:I do recall our poor league form in 1978/9 was widely attributed to the distraction that our positive run in Europe provided that season.
petrusha said:When Mal came back midway through the 1978/9 season, Book's team was showing signs of decline. We weren't in a relegation fight, but we were two thirds of the way down the table, out of the League Cup and had lost as many home games by Christmas as in the previous two and a half seasons put together, IIRC. We'd had a two or three great nights in the UEFA Cup that autumn, especially the tie against Milan, but displays like that were the exception and the team did look in need of a bit of a shake up.
Book's two big signings as he looked to build on the excellent season in 1976/7 had both disappointed - Mick Channon got a goal every 3 games for us so hadn't proved a disaster but he wasn't worth the big fee we paid for him, while Paul Futcher looked out of his depth even though we paid big money for him by the standards of the time and Kazi Deyna was finding the English game hard to adapt to. Colin Bell had come back but was manifestly not the same player and we badly needed another top-class midfielder rather than stop-gaps along the lines of Conway and Viljoen. (Dennis Tueart said in his autobiography that we should have gone for Graeme Souness in 1977 rather than buying Channon, which I think is an excellent call, actually).
However, while I do think that some surgery was needed, I mean a couple of buys and maybe giving the odd kid or two a game, not ripping the team apart as Allison did. We let a lot of players go who could have continued to play an important part at City into the 1980s - not just young players like Barnes and Owen (whose departures gave the lie to the idea that Mal's main aim was to rejuvenate the side) but the likes of Watson and Hartford.
It does need to be pointed out, though, that the reason the episode was so catastrophic was that we made a vast loss on the transfer dealings. If we'd replaced one set of players with another inferior group but made a profit or broken even, that would have been one thing. However, we spent a fortune on the new players, sold the old ones cheap and thus saddled ourselves with a huge debt that hamstrung the club for years. Daley and Robinson cost more than GBP 2.15 for the pair, while Barnes, Owen, Hartford, Watson and Brian Kidd were sold for just under GBP 2 million combined. It's enough to make you weep.
Swales and Allison each blamed one another for this. Tony Book, though, in his autobiography backs Allison up and claims that it was Peter Swales who negotiated the fees for Daley and Robinson - and I'm inclined to believe Book, who I think is a very honest guy. Allison deserves roundly castigating for what happened at City in his second spell, but we have to remember that Swales was just as culpable, if not more so, for the way it had a catastrophic impact on our club for years to come.
Completely agree mate. As you say that group of players had passed its peak, but minor surgery was required, not a heart, brain and lung transplant!petrusha said:gordondaviesmoustache said:I do recall our poor league form in 1978/9 was widely attributed to the distraction that our positive run in Europe provided that season.
There may well be some truth in that. However, as I recall, there was a sense that we'd lost our way a bit - in the summer of 1977, I think a lot of people thought that, having just missed the title by a point, we could go on and challenge for trophies. By Christmas of 1978, that optimism had dissipated somewhat. Mal still didn't need to rip the side apart in the way he did, though.
gordondaviesmoustache said:Malcolm Allison embarked on a reckless, ill-considered and ultimately utterly selfish ego trip when he broke up that team in the manner he did.
A team full of internationals that had finished 2nd and 4th in 1977 & 78 it should be remembered. This wasn't a particularly old squad and these were the days when large changes in personnel had an even more profound effect on the squad than today with the size of squads that now prevail. Change was required but not to anything like the extent that occurred.
To replace Barnes, Owen and Watson with the likes of Silkman, Daley and Stepanovic was utter lunacy.
Of his big buys possibly Mackenzie and Robinson offered him some form of limited vindication- only the former when he was still at City.
We were still feeling the effects of this power fueled gamble with the club's future nearly 30 years later when Sheikh Mansour decided to take a punt on a perennially underachieving football club that had become a byword for epic failure.
Paradoxically Swales, as much of an egomaniac as Allison, was equally culpable - but not because he exercised too much control over the club at that time, but in actual fact , far too little. He allowed the man he'd decided to bring back to mortgage the future of the club and thus cripple it for a generation, without any apparent consideration for the consequences.
Still, all's well that ends well, I guess!
Mad Eyed Screamer said:petrusha said:When Mal came back midway through the 1978/9 season, Book's team was showing signs of decline. We weren't in a relegation fight, but we were two thirds of the way down the table, out of the League Cup and had lost as many home games by Christmas as in the previous two and a half seasons put together, IIRC. We'd had a two or three great nights in the UEFA Cup that autumn, especially the tie against Milan, but displays like that were the exception and the team did look in need of a bit of a shake up.
Book's two big signings as he looked to build on the excellent season in 1976/7 had both disappointed - Mick Channon got a goal every 3 games for us so hadn't proved a disaster but he wasn't worth the big fee we paid for him, while Paul Futcher looked out of his depth even though we paid big money for him by the standards of the time and Kazi Deyna was finding the English game hard to adapt to. Colin Bell had come back but was manifestly not the same player and we badly needed another top-class midfielder rather than stop-gaps along the lines of Conway and Viljoen. (Dennis Tueart said in his autobiography that we should have gone for Graeme Souness in 1977 rather than buying Channon, which I think is an excellent call, actually).
However, while I do think that some surgery was needed, I mean a couple of buys and maybe giving the odd kid or two a game, not ripping the team apart as Allison did. We let a lot of players go who could have continued to play an important part at City into the 1980s - not just young players like Barnes and Owen (whose departures gave the lie to the idea that Mal's main aim was to rejuvenate the side) but the likes of Watson and Hartford.
It does need to be pointed out, though, that the reason the episode was so catastrophic was that we made a vast loss on the transfer dealings. If we'd replaced one set of players with another inferior group but made a profit or broken even, that would have been one thing. However, we spent a fortune on the new players, sold the old ones cheap and thus saddled ourselves with a huge debt that hamstrung the club for years. Daley and Robinson cost more than GBP 2.15 for the pair, while Barnes, Owen, Hartford, Watson and Brian Kidd were sold for just under GBP 2 million combined. It's enough to make you weep.
Swales and Allison each blamed one another for this. Tony Book, though, in his autobiography backs Allison up and claims that it was Peter Swales who negotiated the fees for Daley and Robinson - and I'm inclined to believe Book, who I think is a very honest guy. Allison deserves roundly castigating for what happened at City in his second spell, but we have to remember that Swales was just as culpable, if not more so, for the way it had a catastrophic impact on our club for years to come.
I was in the audience on Granada's Up Front in 1990 (the night before the 1-1 derby, Brightwell's screamer).
In the studio was Swales and Edwards and in the seat in front of me Big Mal. I asked the question ''who signed Steve Daley?'' The conversation went like this:
Swales - Who signed Steve Daley? Peter Swales and Malcolm Allison
Allison - I fancied Steve Daley and spoke with Wolves and they wanted 700K for him and I said he wasn't worth that much and would only offer 600K. We then went to Southampton on the Friday evening and Tony Book comes up to me in the hotel and says ''we've just signed Steve Daley for 1.25m''
Swales - it was a long time ago, I cant remember every exact detail
Audience - huge tutting and groaning....
Blue Streak said:Mad Eyed Screamer said:petrusha said:When Mal came back midway through the 1978/9 season, Book's team was showing signs of decline. We weren't in a relegation fight, but we were two thirds of the way down the table, out of the League Cup and had lost as many home games by Christmas as in the previous two and a half seasons put together, IIRC. We'd had a two or three great nights in the UEFA Cup that autumn, especially the tie against Milan, but displays like that were the exception and the team did look in need of a bit of a shake up.
Book's two big signings as he looked to build on the excellent season in 1976/7 had both disappointed - Mick Channon got a goal every 3 games for us so hadn't proved a disaster but he wasn't worth the big fee we paid for him, while Paul Futcher looked out of his depth even though we paid big money for him by the standards of the time and Kazi Deyna was finding the English game hard to adapt to. Colin Bell had come back but was manifestly not the same player and we badly needed another top-class midfielder rather than stop-gaps along the lines of Conway and Viljoen. (Dennis Tueart said in his autobiography that we should have gone for Graeme Souness in 1977 rather than buying Channon, which I think is an excellent call, actually).
However, while I do think that some surgery was needed, I mean a couple of buys and maybe giving the odd kid or two a game, not ripping the team apart as Allison did. We let a lot of players go who could have continued to play an important part at City into the 1980s - not just young players like Barnes and Owen (whose departures gave the lie to the idea that Mal's main aim was to rejuvenate the side) but the likes of Watson and Hartford.
It does need to be pointed out, though, that the reason the episode was so catastrophic was that we made a vast loss on the transfer dealings. If we'd replaced one set of players with another inferior group but made a profit or broken even, that would have been one thing. However, we spent a fortune on the new players, sold the old ones cheap and thus saddled ourselves with a huge debt that hamstrung the club for years. Daley and Robinson cost more than GBP 2.15 for the pair, while Barnes, Owen, Hartford, Watson and Brian Kidd were sold for just under GBP 2 million combined. It's enough to make you weep.
Swales and Allison each blamed one another for this. Tony Book, though, in his autobiography backs Allison up and claims that it was Peter Swales who negotiated the fees for Daley and Robinson - and I'm inclined to believe Book, who I think is a very honest guy. Allison deserves roundly castigating for what happened at City in his second spell, but we have to remember that Swales was just as culpable, if not more so, for the way it had a catastrophic impact on our club for years to come.
I was in the audience on Granada's Up Front in 1990 (the night before the 1-1 derby, Brightwell's screamer).
In the studio was Swales and Edwards and in the seat in front of me Big Mal. I asked the question ''who signed Steve Daley?'' The conversation went like this:
Swales - Who signed Steve Daley? Peter Swales and Malcolm Allison
Allison - I fancied Steve Daley and spoke with Wolves and they wanted 700K for him and I said he wasn't worth that much and would only offer 600K. We then went to Southampton on the Friday evening and Tony Book comes up to me in the hotel and says ''we've just signed Steve Daley for 1.25m''
Swales - it was a long time ago, I cant remember every exact detail
Audience - huge tutting and groaning....
Was that the one that was presented by Tony Wilson and Lucy Meacock? If so I remember watching it.
Allison was a great coach who needed someone over him to make the ultimate decisions.jimharri said:Allison was a fantastic coach working with Joe, but as a manager he was an unmitigated disaster. He broke up a fantastic team that had (under Tony Book) come within a point of pipping an immense Liverpool team to the title. Barnes, Owen, Hartford, Donachie, Kidd, Royle, Tueart, Watson, Doyle, Corrigan etc etc. And he shipped out just about everyone of them in a very short period of time and, in the process, damn near killing the club off at the same time with his financial cluelessness. Ably assisted by Swales. We were still suffering for that period pretty much up until HRH came in.
trotsky said:Allison was a great coach who needed someone over him to make the ultimate decisions.jimharri said:Allison was a fantastic coach working with Joe, but as a manager he was an unmitigated disaster. He broke up a fantastic team that had (under Tony Book) come within a point of pipping an immense Liverpool team to the title. Barnes, Owen, Hartford, Donachie, Kidd, Royle, Tueart, Watson, Doyle, Corrigan etc etc. And he shipped out just about everyone of them in a very short period of time and, in the process, damn near killing the club off at the same time with his financial cluelessness. Ably assisted by Swales. We were still suffering for that period pretty much up until HRH came in.
Joe Mercer said as much himself. He said that Allison came up with a hundred ideas every day - and occasionally he used one!
Slightly off thread... I played football against Allison's son in Hong Kong. I was introduced to him after the game by a friend believing that I would be thrilled. I apologised as I said that I believed his Dad had ruined our club in his second spell. His son said it was ok as he did not get along with his father. Quite sad really.