The brutal truth about this top 4 b*llocks

[DenisLawBackHeel74]

Re: The brutal truth about this top 4 bollocks

It seems to me now to be the general consensus that finishing 4th would be a great achievement. In some cases, it appears that people believe it might actually be the target this season along with a cup.

Truth. Finishing 4th is a good achievement. Not a great one. Why? Because we did not need to spend 100+ million in order to do so. The squad is stronger without a doubt. It should on paper, provide a platform for us to have a better stab at CL football. Certainly we hope it will eradicate the draws from last season. However, the single argument used by the loyalists no matter what, if it goes up shits creek, will be, new side, new players, takes time to gel, and so on. So, why spend 100+ million on up to 5 new players all of whom will likely start, in order to ahieve as someone excellently pointed out, 3 points better - one place better in the league. It would have made more sense, if this was the target, to keep the same squad as last season, maybe add one player. That would certainly have provided more continuity in terms of the team gelling, knowing each other. Add to that, our rivals for 4th, havent really spent significantly, certainly not enough to warrant us spending 100+ mill to simply compete with them again for 4th, when we were only 3 points short. Moreover, as some of the Mancini arse wipers will testify, we might have achieved 4th without Hughes' draws and so surely your logic would tell you, Mancini was capable of ahieving 4th with the same squad he got close with after xmas last season?

So, some critical questions need to be posed here.

1. What is the real target this season?

2. How much realistically did we need to spend in order to achieve it (taking into account the more we spend and the more players we continue to add every summer, the more likely the 'it takes time' argument is going to continually intensify)

3. Should we be concerned if we keep spending this amount on a new bunch of players every summer, to only compete with everton, liverpool, villa and spurs, who combined have spent no where near as much as us?

It makes sense, once we have achieved CL football, to add one or two 'great' players to make us stronger and capable of winning the title and doing well in the CL. But why spend all this money on these new players, for us as supporters to accept a challenge for 4th.

My conclusion is this. Either the real target is certainly above 4th as ive indicated before, or Mancini has overspent and put us in a position we didnt need to be. I expect some will think the signings provide a better opportunity to achieve CL football. But you are the same fans who are going to use the 'its going take time for 5 new players to settle both on and off the field' argument if we don't pick up points and get left behind before the end of October for example.

We haven't spent £100 mill + for an additional 3 points. if you think that then you are sadly missing the whole point of our recruitment drive.

last season the target was a top 6 finish according to the club, we finished 5th, job done. The 4th place CL target was a late addition and one I think most of us knew was beyond us.

Kaldoon stated in his post season interview that we don't want to be 'nearly' men again. That means we plan to finish comfortably in the top 4, but also compete on other fronts too, europa, Fa cup, etc. For both of these things you need a) a larger squad b) a better pool of talent

mancini has bought players for the future since we probably wont be spending on this scale again. he also knows it takes time for the team to gel and until we get there he needs to be conservative in tactic selection, hence the defensive line-up at spurs.

As others have said, we need to be patient, it will come together.....

 

[dctid]

Re: The brutal truth about this top 4 bollocks

The reality is that CL football is necessary to get anywhere near to covering our outgoings. There will still be a gap but we'd rather it be a gap than a canyon.

So now we're just a business.

Well I'm not having that, we're an institution and no corporate wanker will take that away.

Its already happening fella and truth is there is fook all you can do about it unless you have a few billion in the bank.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: The brutal truth about this top 4 bollocks

There's the rags and Chelsea, who are well-established successful clubs. Can we expect to finish above them this season? I don't believe so, unless one blows up spectacularly.

There's also Arsenal, who are well established and better than the rest but (apart from 2007/8) have usually been well behind the pack in the top 4. Certainly they were catchable last season when we were only 8 points behind them. Can we expect to finish above them? I think the answer has to be yes.

Finally there's Spurs, Liverpool & Everton. We certainly should be looking to beat those three clubs, who haven't had the investment we've had investment but all of who have very competent managers and decent, well-established squads. We certainly should be looking to finish higher than them but we didn't win any of our six games against them last season. In fact, apart from at Anfield, we didn't even score. So we'll also be looking to take more points off these clubs and perform more effectively. Saturday was a start, if not necessarily a convincing one.

So I think the target has to be 3rd.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Re: The brutal truth about this top 4 bollocks

last season the target was a top 6 finish according to the club, we finished 5th, job done. The 4th place CL target was a late addition and one I think most of us knew was beyond us.

Absolute nonsense.

 

[Project]

Re: The brutal truth about this top 4 bollocks

4th - target
3rd/2nd - above target
1st - 2 years ahead

League Cup - bonus
FA Cup - bonus
Europa League - very nice bonus

5th & any cup will be seen as a failure
4th & any cup will be seen as above target

Your name is appropriate. So reading my original point, you feel spending 100+ mill was necessary in order to finish one place higher?

If it was that simple then we'd have spent 200m this summer to get 3rd. The truth is the higher up you get, the more you need to spend to jump a place. It doesn't just work on a straight line basis.

Other factors that confound regular reasoning:

Liverpool were below par last year. They've retained their two best players and if they reach par they will be in the 70-80 point mark. So by just staying still on last year we could potentially be down a place.

Spurs haven't spent much, but will have Sandro and Keane back, as well as a fit Lennon, an on form Bale for the entire year (only from Dec onwards last season), and Modric with a years experience.

Everton will be stronger as they have all of their players fit.

We have European football which will tax our resources. Last year we had no such distraction. If we want to compete in both we'd have needed a stronger squad.

The value of Chelsea, United and Arsenal's squads is already in the 100s of millions range. They also have longevity, experience, stability and the know how to finish in the top 4.

All of these factors and variables add up to the simple point that just a 4th place finish this year will be an excellent achievement.

 

[leewill31]

Re: The brutal truth about this top 4 bollocks

in short top 4(1st-to 4th) is the target and we will not be spending this much again for the foreseeable future.

Thats exactly what Hughes said last season but with a new manager comes new ideas and different players. Simple fact is i cannot see a team strucutre and the money we have spent we have spent on very good but as of yet unproven prem players.

The team on saturday was the same team last year - ie always second best for the important games and had it not been for a fantastic performance from Hart it would have been / could have been as bad as last year.

Liverpool will be the next big game and another poor performance at home wont help. We have much discontent within the squad and for me i am worried.

i honestly cant see why you are so worried,this discontent you talk about is imho only players that are being shown the door and can see a much settled squad come the 1st of September.

we got exactly what we wanted at spurs taking everything into account(first game,changes within the squad, etc etc) many had us down to loose!

liverpool will gives us more of an idea on how mancini wants the the team to play(formation,players,strategy)

forgetting what Hughes said Mancini and the top brass want minimum top 4 and a cup(there you go dave!),Mancini has all ready stated he is after the league so he has made a bold statement Hughes never even dreamt of!

i am far from worried and will see far beyond one game to give any proper assessment of were we will be end of season.

 

[dctid]

Re: The brutal truth about this top 4 bollocks

last season the target was a top 6 finish according to the club, we finished 5th, job done. The 4th place CL target was a late addition and one I think most of us knew was beyond us.

Absolute nonsense.

At the start of the season top 6 was the target but as the season panned out it became clear that a top 4 finish was possible and hence the target was changed to a top 4 - and in truth we fookin blew it

 

[DenisLawBackHeel74]

Re: The brutal truth about this top 4 bollocks

last season the target was a top 6 finish according to the club, we finished 5th, job done. The 4th place CL target was a late addition and one I think most of us knew was beyond us.

Absolute nonsense.

In what sense? The fact it was a late target or that most fans didn't beleive we could do it?

 

[gio's side step]

Re: The brutal truth about this top 4 bollocks

Absolute nonsense.

At the start of the season top 6 was the target but as the season panned out it became clear that a top 4 finish was possible and hence the target was changed to a top 4 - and in truth we fookin blew it

So taking into account where we did in reality finish, and that the teams around us havent spent significantly, how can anyone with a brain realistically accept, spending 100+ million on 5 new players, is to achieve a new target of 4th, when we virtually achieved that last season?

 

[Xavvi]

Re: The brutal truth about this top 4 bollocks

So now we're just a business.

Well I'm not having that, we're an institution and no corporate wanker will take that away.

Its already happening fella and truth is there is fook all you can do about it unless you have a few billion in the bank.

It's not really the fact that it's happening, it's the fact that so many of our support are led along by it. As bad as the rags.