It's a disgrace.
The Conservative Party
- Thread starter dave_blue12
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It's a disgrace.
The Future’s Blue!
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Didn’t see it, what did they give to those that require help?
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Hunt - " if we follow the decisions I laid out today we would mirror Holland and have 2.7 m more people in work"
What Peston should have followed up with is - " vacancies are at 1.1m - what do the other million and a half do? Sign on? !"
What Peston should have followed up with is - " vacancies are at 1.1m - what do the other million and a half do? Sign on? !"
The Light Was Yellow Sir
Well-Known Member
This afternoon, Hunt and the hedge funder have just:
(1) abolished the lifetime allowance on pensions for the wealthy; AND
(2) increased universal credit sanctions for the poorest in society. (Next group to be scapegoated, should ‘the boats’ fall off the headlines).
The effect of abolishing the life time allowance is that the government are giving away £1 billion a year to, POTENTIALLY, get 15,000 people back to work. That is a minimum of £66,000 a job a year. That £1 billion could instead have been spent solving the junior doctor’s pay dispute.
Oh, and average earnings are currently £33,000 but today he’s suggesting that you can put £60,000 a year into a pension, which will help………
(1) abolished the lifetime allowance on pensions for the wealthy; AND
(2) increased universal credit sanctions for the poorest in society. (Next group to be scapegoated, should ‘the boats’ fall off the headlines).
The effect of abolishing the life time allowance is that the government are giving away £1 billion a year to, POTENTIALLY, get 15,000 people back to work. That is a minimum of £66,000 a job a year. That £1 billion could instead have been spent solving the junior doctor’s pay dispute.
Oh, and average earnings are currently £33,000 but today he’s suggesting that you can put £60,000 a year into a pension, which will help………
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
well one they would have a right to appeal I suppose and two if the first of them is deportee 201 for the year we need Rwanda's acceptance that they will take them.
S
S
Summerbuzz
Guest
The real 'moment' for me is this demonstration of the lengths they will go to, to avoid funding the NHS. Because compared to three years ago, there are more than a million battling sickness that keeps them off work. And not only did underfunding and other policy mean a lot of these people got a lot sicker than they should have, it means they cannot get good quality care that would set them on the road back to work.
I'm not sure it's really an ideological thing.... I just think.... One, there is a big "problem" with political and popular support for the NHS post COVID, there's a whole a bit of a don't look, don't ask thing, which extends to talking about various illnesses and excess deaths. People got done in by the whole thing and don't want to look back or pick at a sore topic. The other thing is that many Tories and supporters really don't like the NHS and would happily see it go under, some of that is ideology.... but as it's also about doners and politicians with big pots in private healthcare on top of that, I don't know how much.
It is a thing tho. The horror of 14 years of Toryism that's gotten less and less rooted in practical solutions to issues is that it's everywhere. It's false economy after false economy. I watched the BBC programme on Parole hearings last week... there's a guy there set up to return to home life and work, he's got it all in place. But his parole officer had never spoken to him in person or at length, due to (her words) her having the caseload of two parole officers due to short staffing in response to cuts. Because of that, the appeal board had no evidence that could support his release. And it all had to be put back another 6 months. Because of cuts, "frugality", we would have to pay for him to stay in custody for another 6 months. How many thousands is that? Around 25k, according to latest figures. Which is about what a parole officer would earn in that six months.
Considering that one parole could potentially prevent something similair happening for dozens of other prisoners, that's pretty shocking. It would have taken them no more than two days out of their six months employment to have the task sewn up. Quick and dirty maths says one 45k p.a. parole officer could save as much as a million quid spent keeping people in jail when they were ready for release.
That's where we are. That's just one more example of how far ideological 'frugality' has gone, and how expensive it is. The NHS example, is me, 46, couldn't get a face to face with the doctor, got fobbed off. What's one face to face cost? £200, tops? Well, six months later, those same symptoms presaged a heart attack, requiring hospital inpatient stay, an expensive operation and hugely expensive follow ups. Won't ever return to previous work.
You'll never persuade some people. Some people will never stop wanting more cuts. That's just a fact of life. No reason will change their mind, unless they do it themselves. The only hope is that the British electorate is savvy enough to realise, this actually isn't value for money. It's racking up the long term costs, and avoiding talking about why, for political reasons. Because the 'hard talk' bunch are actually being soft on themselves. They want it to be true. They don't care what it costs, because to them it will always be true.
Then there's the warning from history. That some people like hurting others, and the reason doesn't matter. They just do. And politics offers an opportunity for them to lamp in with ideologically blinkered types, and get off on the hurt it causes ordinary people. Historians and psychologists and all the rest know, they've seen it over and over again. Think Stanford Prison Experiment. Causing a little bit of hurt to others is addictive. It leaves them wanting more, and more. Ultimately, nothing will get in the way of it. Reality will not bite. Unless others step in and take control.
I think I've seen more suffering in the UK in my lifetime - the minors strike. No doubt, part of that was played out pathetically, acting punitively towards the minors for no reason satisfied some people.
This tho, I think is possibly bigger, it encompasses more aspects of our lives. I say that. I'm really not sure.
I'm just struggling to see how the NHS is ever off the discussion list. And struggling to remember more than one story or comment in the last month about Britain experiencing more than 250k premature deaths than it should have expected. That is the number as judged by the actuaries - the people who run the pension pots. They don't fuck about with the predictions, it's not in the hands of the government. It's not even a fringe topic.
I don't consider that as healthy, but perhaps it is not all that 'abnormal'. I do think we are in a mess, that this means there is not really anything going on in our discussions apart from distraction from this, and other elephants in the room. Maybe this doesn't get attention for years. I don't know. I've had to adapt to that prospect. My 'hope', such as it is, is that for various reasons, we are slowly turning away from the 'frugality' mania and act with respect towards human life and suffering and dignity, and pay close attention to cause and effect, rather than enforcing one limited idea onto every situation. Which is just as well, because the excess death issue well be what history judges as the most significant aspect of this period in our history, and I trust we're strong and smart enough in political thought, academia, journalism and other aspects of our society to ensure that ignoring the issue will not prevent that from being the case.
I'm not sure it's really an ideological thing.... I just think.... One, there is a big "problem" with political and popular support for the NHS post COVID, there's a whole a bit of a don't look, don't ask thing, which extends to talking about various illnesses and excess deaths. People got done in by the whole thing and don't want to look back or pick at a sore topic. The other thing is that many Tories and supporters really don't like the NHS and would happily see it go under, some of that is ideology.... but as it's also about doners and politicians with big pots in private healthcare on top of that, I don't know how much.
It is a thing tho. The horror of 14 years of Toryism that's gotten less and less rooted in practical solutions to issues is that it's everywhere. It's false economy after false economy. I watched the BBC programme on Parole hearings last week... there's a guy there set up to return to home life and work, he's got it all in place. But his parole officer had never spoken to him in person or at length, due to (her words) her having the caseload of two parole officers due to short staffing in response to cuts. Because of that, the appeal board had no evidence that could support his release. And it all had to be put back another 6 months. Because of cuts, "frugality", we would have to pay for him to stay in custody for another 6 months. How many thousands is that? Around 25k, according to latest figures. Which is about what a parole officer would earn in that six months.
Considering that one parole could potentially prevent something similair happening for dozens of other prisoners, that's pretty shocking. It would have taken them no more than two days out of their six months employment to have the task sewn up. Quick and dirty maths says one 45k p.a. parole officer could save as much as a million quid spent keeping people in jail when they were ready for release.
That's where we are. That's just one more example of how far ideological 'frugality' has gone, and how expensive it is. The NHS example, is me, 46, couldn't get a face to face with the doctor, got fobbed off. What's one face to face cost? £200, tops? Well, six months later, those same symptoms presaged a heart attack, requiring hospital inpatient stay, an expensive operation and hugely expensive follow ups. Won't ever return to previous work.
You'll never persuade some people. Some people will never stop wanting more cuts. That's just a fact of life. No reason will change their mind, unless they do it themselves. The only hope is that the British electorate is savvy enough to realise, this actually isn't value for money. It's racking up the long term costs, and avoiding talking about why, for political reasons. Because the 'hard talk' bunch are actually being soft on themselves. They want it to be true. They don't care what it costs, because to them it will always be true.
Then there's the warning from history. That some people like hurting others, and the reason doesn't matter. They just do. And politics offers an opportunity for them to lamp in with ideologically blinkered types, and get off on the hurt it causes ordinary people. Historians and psychologists and all the rest know, they've seen it over and over again. Think Stanford Prison Experiment. Causing a little bit of hurt to others is addictive. It leaves them wanting more, and more. Ultimately, nothing will get in the way of it. Reality will not bite. Unless others step in and take control.
I think I've seen more suffering in the UK in my lifetime - the minors strike. No doubt, part of that was played out pathetically, acting punitively towards the minors for no reason satisfied some people.
This tho, I think is possibly bigger, it encompasses more aspects of our lives. I say that. I'm really not sure.
I'm just struggling to see how the NHS is ever off the discussion list. And struggling to remember more than one story or comment in the last month about Britain experiencing more than 250k premature deaths than it should have expected. That is the number as judged by the actuaries - the people who run the pension pots. They don't fuck about with the predictions, it's not in the hands of the government. It's not even a fringe topic.
I don't consider that as healthy, but perhaps it is not all that 'abnormal'. I do think we are in a mess, that this means there is not really anything going on in our discussions apart from distraction from this, and other elephants in the room. Maybe this doesn't get attention for years. I don't know. I've had to adapt to that prospect. My 'hope', such as it is, is that for various reasons, we are slowly turning away from the 'frugality' mania and act with respect towards human life and suffering and dignity, and pay close attention to cause and effect, rather than enforcing one limited idea onto every situation. Which is just as well, because the excess death issue well be what history judges as the most significant aspect of this period in our history, and I trust we're strong and smart enough in political thought, academia, journalism and other aspects of our society to ensure that ignoring the issue will not prevent that from being the case.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
inflation........ world fuel prices happening anyway so inflation will fall - if they claimed that they cannot control the increases they cannot claim credit for the reductions
pension pots cap scrapped - you have to have to have been paid over £300k pa to benefit from the pension reforms announced today - less than 1% od people benefit
www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk
pension pots cap scrapped - you have to have to have been paid over £300k pa to benefit from the pension reforms announced today - less than 1% od people benefit
Independent Front Page 16th of March 2023 - Tomorrow's Papers Today!
www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
It's designed to get Teachers and School Staff back into work.
Saddleworth2
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Thoughtful post mate. Your conclusion intrigued me. What gives you even a glimmer of hope to reach that conclusion because I see no political will or intelligence to grapple thoughtfully and strategically with any of the massive issues that this nation will have to resolve if it is to achieve what you hope it will.
In terms of excess deaths, we still hear little about long covid but it is very real and very horrible. My formerly fit as a flea son has it and if it impacts the elderly in a similar way then it wouldn't surprise me at all if a large percentage is caused by that and another percentage caused by the non diagnosis of conditions during the pandemic.
Listening to the three SNP leadership candidates up here all of them are majoring on eradication of poverty and 'fixing' the NHS in Scotland. Those are fine ambitions but none of them have convinced that they have any practical idea on how to achieve that on a sustainable basis. Many of the problems really are out with the bandwidth of politicians. My mind goes back to when I worked in large corporate programmes when it was important to establish a detailed target operating model and then put in place programme activity to work towards that. Some of those programmes lasted for years, some actually delivered massive success, some failed (usually through lack of follow through) but at least there was proper thought and analysis put into them. Quick fixes and random initiatives might show some benefit but they never change the ships direction.