The Conservative Party

[Vic]

Money talks. Wealth whispers.

Nouveau riche.

 

[Phil1]

, it’s sometimes hard to hide.

It’s getting harder but you know, where’s there a will there’s a way… :-)

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

It’s getting harder but you know, where’s there a will there’s a way… :-)

I'm picturing a fat brash bloke with red skin who looks and acts like Mike Ashley.

 

[Phil1]

I'm picturing a fat brash bloke with red skin who looks and acts like Mike Ashley.

Jeez, your fantasies are wild!! I’m a fairly slim (13 stone) bloke who makes people’s dreams come true., haha!

 

[Rascal]

Nice post, well put. It’s difficult to argue with your points
I am from a working class, one parent,(father died when I was very young)3 kids family
Bought up in terraced, outside loo and tin bath, 11+ failure, left school with only a few qualifications so I think we can discount your options 2 +3 as applying to me.
My point about risk is/ was you have to take it at sometime in life if you want to get on.

Fair points, but getting on also includes some luck if you are not already wealthy.

perhaps as I got older my risks were more calculated.
Yes some of my wealth is down to luck, but I only ever risked what I could afford to lose. My business was always there to put food on the table and rebuild the pot, if needed.
I did my last share trade in March this year and the share price has since tumbled.

That Capitalism for you

I now only invest in Land near other housing developments that don’t have planning permission at the moment.

I could get all ideological at this point, bit will leave it for now.

The problem appears to be with some of the same old faces on the politics thread is they hate any sort of success stories.

This is a huge misnomer, do you realise even Lenin wanted successful small businesses, you may encounter jealousy from people who have failed but as a person who has mostly failed I do not begrudge your success.

I can see why there are social mobility issues within the classes.
I started off as working class and but am now middle class.

You state you are now middle class, that Social mobility within classes has issues, you are not middle class, you are a working class lad who has done well and the aspiration to join a class is simply nonsense. You will never be upper class however much wealth you have.

The classes tend to stay within their own social strata as on social occasions the middle classes tend to avoid the working classes fearing the sort of reaction that’s given on here to anybody declaring they have a bob or two and not ashamed of it.

You are not middle class, you pretend you are, but you are not. Money is irrelevant to social strata, you can have poor upper class and rich working class, it is not about money it is about social circumstances.

Because of the chip on the shoulder they miss out on lots of jobs, business opportunities, advice, help etc.which social mobility brings with it

That is because social mobility is a myth, nothing to do with chips on shoulders. I am a working class lad and the barriers that class creates would not allow me to say join the Bullingdon Club

Politically I am seen on here as some sort of Nigel Farage

I dont you can type

but in reality I see good and bad in all Parties and post Thatcher , just let the politicians decide what ever and just work round it

which is easy if you have capital, not so much if you do not have capital

I think there are many on the left who are expecting miracles if Labour get in but apart from a bit of tweaking at the edges they are going to be severely disappointed when they see same old under a different name.

Agreed, Labour are fucking useless at the moment

There just isn’t the spare money out there to do anything radical or please everyone.

And there speaketh a true capitalist.

In 1946 the economy was running a deficit of -256% of GDP, MINUS 256%

Yet the government of the day created the NHS, rebuilt the devastated country with council housing, natiionalised huge swathes of industry and even the Tory leader Macmiilan said in 1957 that the UK had never had it so good. We had a social democratic concensus that survived until Thatcher unleashed neo-liberalism on the nation and we have never been the same country that Macmillan said we were.

 

[bluethrunthru]

well I suppose recession is a plan...... but last month weren't we cheering that we were not in recession? They don't have a plan do they............?

Times Front Page 22nd of June 2023 - Tomorrow's Papers Today!

The Times reports a rift between Chancellor Jeremy Hunt's economic advisers and the Bank of England due to elevated inflation and mortgage rates.

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Fair points, but getting on also includes some luck if you are not already wealthy.

That Capitalism for you

I could get all ideological at this point, bit will leave it for now.

This is a huge misnomer, do you realise even Lenin wanted successful small businesses, you may encounter jealousy from people who have failed but as a person who has mostly failed I do not begrudge your success.

You state you are now middle class, that Social mobility within classes has issues, you are not middle class, you are a working class lad who has done well and the aspiration to join a class is simply nonsense. You will never be upper class however much wealth you have.

You are not middle class, you pretend you are, but you are not. Money is irrelevant to social strata, you can have poor upper class and rich working class, it is not about money it is about social circumstances.

That is because social mobility is a myth, nothing to do with chips on shoulders. I am a working class lad and the barriers that class creates would not allow me to say join the Bullingdon Club

I dont you can type

which is easy if you have capital, not so much if you do not have capital

Agreed, Labour are fucking useless at the moment

And there speaketh a true capitalist.

In 1946 the economy was running a deficit of -256% of GDP, MINUS 256%

Yet the government of the day created the NHS, rebuilt the devastated country with council housing, natiionalised huge swathes of industry and even the Tory leader Macmiilan said in 1957 that the UK had never had it so good. We had a social democratic concensus that survived until Thatcher unleashed neo-liberalism on the nation and we have never been the same country that Macmillan said we were.

Excellent post, but slight correction.

He has no class.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

The steel industry was already in a bad way
I remember on some of my first jobs going over to Sheffield to do audits, these were at private companies which just couldn’t compete on quality and price against overseas companies.
They were losing massive amounts of money and closed shortly after. If no one buys what you’re making no matter who is in power there is a problem.
If my memory serves me correctly wasn’t there a major problem with the Liverpool dockers not accepting containerisation of its port. They were insisting every single washing machine etc had to be unloaded individually and theft was rife.
We demand cheap goods and with a lot of products they now have to be produced overseas.

It began with Thatcher as breaking of the unions was a deliberate policy, scrapping of our industrial base so we could import cheap goods from India and China, profit driven before workers laying thousands of men on the scrap heap and redundancy for the dockers, thousands of men asked to change their working practice.
India and China use slave labour to produce goods so it’s a profit driven market. However we manufacture’ very little now making thousands of men redundant is not the way forward.
We made goods the envy of the world, everything is now imported in those containers you mention.
Sheffield stainless steel lasts a lifetime imported steel is weak in comparison, huge profits made by the privatisation of British Steel and in South Wales we closed the coal mines and steel making capacity in favour of a service industry.

Container shipping wasn’t the beginning it was the end of the dockers far from stealing washing machines it was alway about better working condition and pay. Same as the railway workers today trying to obtain a pay rise and safe working practice

 

[Vic]

Poor analogy about the lottery ticket.

Courtesy of halfmist in another thread:

... Bought on the way down, sold on the way up when the gain was about £60-70 k.
23 successful deals later in March 23,I called it a day in share dealing against my wife’s wishes. Glad I did because the shares are now worth £40 k less than when I sold them.
I now invest in land without planning permission, much more of a steady Eddie approach.
You can do as much research as you like, but without a crystal ball, it’s a lottery in this uncertain world we now live in.

And trying to speculate on land without planning permission is interesting. The Tories have gone full Nimby and given up housing targets, while Labour might stop speculative profit on selling land.

Labour plans to allow local authorities to buy land cheaply for development

Exclusive: If elected next year, party would allow officials to buy up land at fraction of potential cost as part of ‘pro-building’ agenda

www.theguardian.com

 

[Vic]

John Crace brilliant. Begins with Hoyle's ruling that you can't compare another honourable member to Johnson as that would imply they're lying!

Has Rishi Sunak been taking honesty lessons from Boris Johnson? | John Crace

The speaker had to step in after the PM’s claims about the economy stretched the credulity of at least one member at PMQ

www.theguardian.com