The Everton thread 2014/15

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If he has another good year and then goes to the Euros with England they'll be more than just Chelsea after him and the bidding war Everton want will start

It could happen, but there's a couple of big IFs there. 40m now guaranteed, or hope a player who wants to move puts in a stellar season and increases his value? He could simply have a mediocre season, and suddenly clubs have a rethink on him. I think 40m's worth letting him go for. Even if he does have a stellar season, would he get to 50m? for a defender? hmmm, that would be pushing it. Of course it's possible, but it's a hell of a gamble from Everton.

Which clubs are in the 40m+ for a defender bracket? PSG, City, Chelsea, United, Real, Bayern and Barca. I can't actually see a foreign club blowing that amount on an English player.

Who knows what the future holds for him, but 40m in Everton's pocket is probably time to cash in.
 
If that's the case why have about 90% of the clubs in the league been bought by rich benefactors and Everton have never been bought,
Haven't you read the thread? Kenwright hasn't been keen on selling. Ffs we had to force Swales out and you lot had to do the same with H&G.
 
What makes for a sensible investment for one group doesn't always equate to a sensible one for another.
Liverpool offer a certain set of opportunities, whilst Everton offer another set. So much depends on what the investor is trying to achieve, at what price, and what's actually feasible.
It doesn't matter if Everton aren't as big as Liverpool. Why spend 500m on Liverpool to make back 800m, if you could buy Everton for 100m and make 400m back? Same return, less initial investment. Strong brands like Liverpool can be great, but they can also be a hindrance if you're trying to push your own brand too.

I think the stadium IS an issue though, and football isn't necessarily a great investment anyway - unless you have a wider set of motives like our owners do (and the money to achieve them).

Who knows what the future holds for Everton, but I can't help but feel we'd be in a similar or much worse position had we not moved stadiums and got 'lucky' enough to attract investment on the back of it. Everton and Villa could very easily fall down the leagues like City and Leeds did. They've been far more resilient than we were, but they aren't immune to it.
Stadium is always a good point,you see Villa who have a modern stadium and one of the best in the country,not had the best of years for a couple of decades but a billionaire buys them.Stadiums costs are rising alot and there is also the time consuming planning permission with alot of hurdles that take time,you only have to see us and Spurs who are finally getting round to expansion and that has taken 10 years to get round.Everton shot themselves in the foot over 10 years ago when they could have moved to a brand new spanking stadium on the dock and only had to foot a bill of 35 million for that to happen.

I think the next club to be bought by rich investors will be west ham especially with the move to the refurbished Olympic stadium which will be an attractive proposition.
 
If that's the case why have about 90% of the clubs in the league been bought by rich benefactors and Everton have never been bought,we had the sheikh of dubai wanting to buy liverpool twice,when H&G lost the club and RBS/wachovia were looking for someone to buy the club we had FSG, Peter Lim the new Valencia owner and the Chinese government consortium led by kenny Huang who recently bought AC milan.Everton isn't an attractive club to buy with it's dire consequences regarding Finances and stadium,it would cost too much money after fixing those things before you even get to the playing side,not good business and a high risk.

There's a couple of issues there.
When Liverpool were in a fire sale, FSG was the only real option. There was no queue to buy Liverpool.
Everton have to want to sell, and if the majority of shareholders aren't for selling, there's not a lot anybody can do. That doesn't stop them being attractive, it makes them 'held back' (or if you believe Kenwright - 'protected' from bad owners).

Don't get me wrong, nobody (with any sense) is saying City magically 'deserved' rich benefactors, but we did have a set of circumstances that made us appealing. We were sold in a fire sale by Sinawatra, had a nice new stadium, and a lot of expansion possibility (not just in terms of capacity, but in adjacent land). We got lucky in that sense, but making the decision to move to the new stadium put us in a position to get lucky.

People have to stop seeing investment opportunities as a measure of club size / stature. It's not, and never has been. Lots of investors like 'start ups' because there's more money to be made IF you get it right. That doesn't make 'Billy's little sweet shop' bigger or better than Google / Apple. It just means there's a higher ROI, or more opportunity shape / influence the company the way you want it.

All in all, football clubs are not particularly great investments, which is another issue. If you REALLY want to make a return on your investment, most people would avoid football completely. It's more suitable for a wealthy benefactor who wants the exposure it can bring and who is willing to 'have a go' at it, rather than be certain of making money back.
In City's case, what the owners want back from City isn't necessarily a financial return, but the increased exposure and credibility gained from turning around a mediocre club / business into a very good one, AND being seen as progressive, professional partners in regeneration projects. Manchester City is not their big thing, it's only a small part of things.

FSG at Liverpool have no real desire to increase their exposure. They want hard money back. They're an investment group solely aimed at making money. That doesn't mean they'll shaft LFC in the process - it simply means that every investment they make is underpinned by a longer term desire to make that money back.

There is no queue of buyers waiting in the wings to buy up these clubs and leave owners with a huge profit. That means the owners either have to sell and make very little, or in most cases, actually make a loss. Otherwise, they have to stick in place and try and claw back some money via not spending, but staying in the PL.

Chelsea and City are the exception to the rule and shouldn't really be used as examples of 'typical' investment. Nobody's making huge sums from owning football clubs - which is why nobody's queuing up to buy - Liverpool included.
 
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Didn't the bosses reps get told that to buy Everton, would require the okay from 16 different interested parties?
 
I await the likes of Graeme Sharp, Tony Cottee and Neville Southall to come out with how Stones should stay where he is and making a bad decision in joining a team who he won't get a game for.
 
There's a couple of issues there.
When Liverpool were in a fire sale, FSG was the only real option. There was no queue to buy Liverpool.
Everton have to want to sell, and if the majority of shareholders aren't for selling, there's not a lot anybody can do. That doesn't stop them being attractive, it makes them 'held back' (or if you believe Kenwright - 'protected' from bad owners).

Don't get me wrong, nobody (with any sense) is saying City magically 'deserved' rich benefactors, but we did have a set of circumstances that made us appealing. We were sold in a fire sale by Sinawatra, had a nice new stadium, and a lot of expansion possibility (not just in terms of capacity, but in adjacent land). We got lucky in that sense, but making the decision to move to the new stadium put us in a position to get lucky.

People have to stop seeing investment opportunities as a measure of club size / stature. It's not, and never has been. Lots of investors like 'start ups' because there's more money to be made IF you get it right. That doesn't make 'Billy's little sweet shop' bigger or better than Google / Apple. It just means there's a higher ROI, or more opportunity shape / influence the company the way you want it.

All in all, football clubs are not particularly great investments, which is another issue. If you REALLY want to make a return on your investment, most people would avoid football completely. It's more suitable for a wealthy benefactor who wants the exposure it can bring and who is willing to 'have a go' at it, rather than be certain of making money back.
In City's case, what the owners want back from City isn't necessarily a financial return, but the increased exposure and credibility gained from turning around a mediocre club / business into a very good one, AND being seen as progressive, professional partners in regeneration projects. Manchester City is not their big thing, it's only a small part of things.

FSG at Liverpool have no real desire to increase their exposure. They want hard money back. They're an investment group solely aimed at making money. That doesn't mean they'll shaft LFC in the process - it simply means that every investment they make is underpinned by a longer term desire to make that money back.

There is no queue of buyers waiting in the wings to buy up these clubs and leave owners with a huge profit. That means the owners either have to sell and make very little, or in most cases, actually make a loss. Otherwise, they have to stick in place and try and claw back some money via not spending, but staying in the PL.

Chelsea and City are the exception to the rule and shouldn't really be used as examples of 'typical' investment. Nobody's making huge sums from owning football clubs - which is why nobody's queuing up to buy - Liverpool included.
No queue to buy us???, FSG, Peter Lim and the Chinese consortium all did due diligence and FSG was chosen.

But anyway good post,regarding FSG and the stadium expansion it's being rumoured they are wanting to sell a 30% stake with the tie in naming rights for the main stand,i know they had contact with ooredoo the qatari telecommunications company last year,wouldn't surprise me if something like that happened as it could pay for the main stand and 2nd phase expansion with the anfield road end.
 
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No queue to buy us???, FSG, Peter Lim and the Chinese consortium all did due diligence and FSG was chosen.

But anyway good post,regarding FSG and the stadium expansion it's being rumoured they are wanting to sell a 30% stake with the tie in naming rights for the main stand,i know they had contact with ooredoo the qatari telecommunications company last year,wouldn't surprise me if something like that happened as it could pay for the main stand and 2nd phase expansion with the anfield road end.

Peter Lim came in at the last minute with what some argue was a PR stunt (some will say it was a genuine offer). He didn't carry out due diligence on LFC, and RBS didn't carry it out on his offer as they claimed they didn't have enough time and in order to prevent LFC going into administration, NESV (FSG) was the only actual option.

I think FSG are now stuck in limbo (which isn't as dire as it sounds). They can't sit back and hope to make a profit, and they can't sell easily either. The expansion might be enough to increase revenue and make the LFC proposition more attractive (at a push), but I think they'd pull out if they could get a modest return, or even break even.
I'm not sure the appetite for football club investment is what it was perhaps 10 years ago, and despite all the increased revenues, most of it goes right back out on players eventually. The amounts of investment required to really compete have become astronomical, and that's narrowing the number of possible buyers (which wasn't a large number even 10 years ago). I think FSG hoped they could just pump a bit of money back into Liverpool, get back into CL, and then reap the rewards. They've discovered (like many others), that it's not that easy, and City certainly haven't helped their plight.

I agree with you about West Ham. They look ripe for a big investor. With each passing year, Liverpool's 'appeal' is diminishing. That's not to say they aren't appealing, just that it's not getting any stronger, and there's more and more competition cropping up. As much as Liverpool have to offer, you could easily make similar cases for West Ham, or even Newcastle. Yes, Liverpool's brand and status is stronger, but it's not the only factor. If there are going to be any other mega owners like City's, then I think they'll look at what City have done and believe they can do the same with a number of clubs, and Liverpool's 'stature' won't really be a major factor for someone looking to invest billions. It's more likely to appeal to a more regular investor looking to cash in a ready made brand (which puts Liverpool right back at square one with a 'normal' investor who doesn't have limitless pockets).

This was supposed to be about Everton though, rather than Liverpool, but the same principle applies really.
1) There's not that many mega billionaires around.
2) There's even less who need / want to use a PL club for their own ends
3) All the 'modestly wealthy' investors have come to realise there's hardly any money to be made (if at all), and they can't compete with the big boys anyway.

So we're left with a bunch of 'nice guy' owners like Kenwright and Lerner who don't have the funds to really move their clubs forwards, and can't find buyers who are a) willing to offer them a decent price and b) do right by the club.

I've no idea how Kenwright thinks he can tell how good an owner is going to be, but he seems hell bent on only selling to the 'right' people.
If there are any people out their willing to buy clubs, the current trend seems to be for business men from the Far East making a name for themselves (and likely not a good name!), and that seems to be a total lottery if you're going to get a stark raving loony or not.
 
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