The General Election Thread

[Damocles]

Charlie Brooker's Election Wipe is on at 9pm tonight. On immigration:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W90buvgQ-Mk&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[Wilf Wild 1937]

I think that if the polls are going to be wrong, people will have been a little more shy to admit they are voting right wing. If anyone's going to be causing surprises, it's likely to be UKIP.

Farage hasn't fought a good campaign though. He has come across as a bit of a nutter just trying to shock and be provocative.
His comments about immigrants with HIV came across as callous and claiming the studio audience were all left wing just made him look stupid.
He's got what he wanted with the Referendum on Europe and UKIP are essentially a one issue party. I think the Tories with the Lib Dems and
possibly DUP will just edge it as a coalition. The SNP will be a big vote loser for Labour in England. Miliband personally has actually come across reasonably well.

His HIV comments came across as callous to those who would never consider voting for him. For those that may have been thinking about it, it was a perfectly valid point about health tourism, even if he could have used a better example.

Claiming the audience was left wing was absolutely correct.

I think Cameron's a bit wooly on the referendum. He's promised one in 2017 but after attempts to negotiate the UK's position in the EU, which Juncker has ruled out until 2019. Plus, it might be a red line for the Libs or DUP in a coalition agreement.

I like some of UKIP's other policies. I think grammar schools (done correctly) are a good idea to improve social mobility, they're the only party willing to commit 2% of the budget to defence and I respect their plans to help veterans. That's without mentioning that that single issue is a big issue for many voters.

I think Miliband came across very well and improved his standing early in the campaign but has really slipped in the past week or so. He got ruined on Question Time and his incredibly vague policies set in stone stunt was ridiculous. Especially when Lucy Powell then claimed that they weren't set in stone at all.

The TV audience was a representative cross section of the electorate, it was not picked by the BBC as David Dimbleby pointed out at the time.

The Tories quite clearly will vote to stay in Europe when the referendum is held. It will be held but like 1975 with all 3 major parties
advocating staying in whatever Cameron can or cannot negotiate (that won't change) I think it's a foregone conclusion we will stay in.
The Lib Dems will go into coalition with the Tories but not UKIP (or the SNP). Advocating a referendum isn't a red line but advocating
withdrawal from either the union (SNP) or the EU (UKIP) is. I don't know what the DUP position is but I doubt holding a referendum
would be a red line. I predict a 2-1 vote in favour of staying in when the referendum takes place.

Your points on grammar schools and defence are valid and I do agree with UKIP's policies in these areas. I think that few people who
weren't already committed UKIP voters would however be swayed by them. In that sense it's the flip side of his health tourism comments
which were much more commented upon.

I agree with you about Miliband: he certainly did perform better at the start of the campaign. The "tombstone" was ridiculous!
None the less although I wouldn't vote for him he is electable which has surprised me. He's certainly not a total pillock like Michael Foot
or Neil Kinnock and I think he is actually sincere in what he says unlike Blair.

 

[kas_tippler]

Kas_tippler is another one who has made little or no sensible contribution to this thread but has been very intent on being a troll. It hasn't gone unnoticed.

Thats your opinion, I don't agree with it but I'd defend your right to have it!

 

[Johnsonontheleft]

My history degree has taught me that PR is very dangerous as combined with a bad recession it led to the rise of National Socialism and ultimately was a main cause of WWII.

Having said that, the current system is totally Labour-biased due to the boundaries issue. And speaking of national socialists it will be a travesty of democracy if the SNP have anything of a say on English issues.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

My history degree has taught me that PR is very dangerous as combined with a bad recession it led to the rise of National Socialism and ultimately was a main cause of WWII.

Having said that, the current system is totally Labour-biased due to the boundaries issue. And speaking of national socialists it will be a travesty of democracy if the SNP have anything of a say on English issues.

But the problem with First Past The Post is that if you vote in a safe constituency then your vote makes little difference.

Relatively few voters will decide the result.

 

[Damocles]

My history degree has taught me that PR is very dangerous as combined with a bad recession it led to the rise of National Socialism and ultimately was a main cause of WWII.

Having said that, the current system is totally Labour-biased due to the boundaries issue. And speaking of national socialists it will be a travesty of democracy if the SNP have anything of a say on English issues.

And all along I thought it was the German feeling of oppression due to the Treaty of Versaille combined with economic hardships due to the Americans calling in their loans after their Depression and a wealthy elite in Germany who funded the Nazis due to the perceived threat of communism amongst the workers was the cause.

Funny to learn that all of that was bollocks and the actual cause of World War 2 was proportional representation.

One presume that we should all be starting combat training soon as Germany has used PR as its voting structure since 1945

 

[Ducado]

My history degree has taught me that PR is very dangerous as combined with a bad recession it led to the rise of National Socialism and ultimately was a main cause of WWII.

Having said that, the current system is totally Labour-biased due to the boundaries issue. And speaking of national socialists it will be a travesty of democracy if the SNP have anything of a say on English issues.

Absolute nonsense

 

[urmston]

My history degree has taught me that PR is very dangerous as combined with a bad recession it led to the rise of National Socialism and ultimately was a main cause of WWII.

What an odd and tenuous link between PR and a world war.

PR operates well in many countries including Germany which still has it.

 

[hilts]

My history degree has taught me that PR is very dangerous as combined with a bad recession it led to the rise of National Socialism and ultimately was a main cause of WWII.

Having said that, the current system is totally Labour-biased due to the boundaries issue. And speaking of national socialists it will be a travesty of democracy if the SNP have anything of a say on English issues.

But the problem with First Past The Post is that if you vote in a safe constituency then your vote makes little difference.

Relatively few voters will decide the result.

Replace the word little with no for accuracy

 

[Wilf Wild 1937]

My history degree has taught me that PR is very dangerous as combined with a bad recession it led to the rise of National Socialism and ultimately was a main cause of WWII.

Having said that, the current system is totally Labour-biased due to the boundaries issue. And speaking of national socialists it will be a travesty of democracy if the SNP have anything of a say on English issues.

But the problem with First Past The Post is that if you vote in a safe constituency then your vote makes little difference.

Relatively few voters will decide the result.

interestingly enough Hitler's share of the vote was 33.1% when he gained office having fallen from a previous peak of 37.3%.
He had one election after gaining power winning 43.9% of the vote. He's vote share was not dissimilar to what the two major
parties get in UK elections. I don't think FPTP or PR in themselves make that much difference in keeping out extremists.

 

[Len Rum]

My history degree has taught me that PR is very dangerous as combined with a bad recession it led to the rise of National Socialism and ultimately was a main cause of WWII.

Having said that, the current system is totally Labour-biased due to the boundaries issue. And speaking of national socialists it will be a travesty of democracy if the SNP have anything of a say on English issues.

Simple solution to 'the boundaries issue' , adopt Labour's proposal to redraw the boundaries in line with the number of people of voting age as recorded in the 2011 census.
Agreed?

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

crucial 5 years coming up for me, out of education, in the job market, preferably landing a role within big business in London to get the opportunity to climb the wages ladder.

I just get the feeling a Labour, or Labour/SNP government will stifle all that.

 

[BigJoe#1]

My history degree has taught me that PR is very dangerous as combined with a bad recession it led to the rise of National Socialism and ultimately was a main cause of WWII.

Having said that, the current system is totally Labour-biased due to the boundaries issue. And speaking of national socialists it will be a travesty of democracy if the SNP have anything of a say on English issues.

How do you work that out?

The Tories and Labour are both forecast to get 32-36 % but the Tories will end up with 30+ more seats than Labour.

..... Just asking?

 

[Metal Biker]

We're heading for a hung parliament and we'll have to vote again in 6 months or 6 weeks.
British politics is fooked beyond repair unless we get proportional representation.

 

[whp.blue]

My history degree has taught me that PR is very dangerous as combined with a bad recession it led to the rise of National Socialism and ultimately was a main cause of WWII.

Having said that, the current system is totally Labour-biased due to the boundaries issue. And speaking of national socialists it will be a travesty of democracy if the SNP have anything of a say on English issues.

And here was me thinking the dracoean punishments in the treaty of Versailles was one of the main causes of Hitlers rise to power and his subsequent decision to plunge Europe into WW2

During the negotiations for creation of the Treaty of Versailles, The Allies without German involvement imposed a host of punitive conditions on Germany wasn't allowed to attend. With resentment being the obvious result.

One punishment, which was more emotional than anything, was that Germany had to take 100% of the blame for the start of World War I. Another punishment made Germany pay reparations to the Allies for damages caused by the war. It came out to $33 billion, which Germany only had about a third of that money at the time. Germany also lost about 13% of its land that Germany had previously occupied and all of its overseas colonies. This also allowed them to lose about 10% of their population. Lastly, the German army was restricted to 100,000 men. They also couldn't have an air force, tanks, or submarines. All munitions had to be surrendered, and it demilitarized the Rhineland (the territory between France and Germany).
Hitler seized on this and used it to gain power in Germany I accept they had PR but not sure the voting system was that much of a factor.

But I don't have a History degree obviously teach history differently at O level

 

[Damocles]

crucial 5 years coming up for me, out of education, in the job market, preferably landing a role within big business in London to get the opportunity to climb the wages ladder.

I just get the feeling a Labour, or Labour/SNP government will stifle all that.

Based on what?

I finished Uni and walked straight into a job, gave up that job and formed a startup then finished with that and became a self employed contractor working across international boundaries all in a Labour job market. Manchester got rebuilt and became the most invested city in the world for a short time under Labour. The City of London became a much heavily invested in, worldwide economic powerhouse under Labour.

What possible change could Labour make that you make you any less able to get a job with a top firm? If you're clever enough and have the right results and contacts you'll get a job and it doesn't matter if the BNP get elected

 

[whp.blue]

crucial 5 years coming up for me, out of education, in the job market, preferably landing a role within big business in London to get the opportunity to climb the wages ladder.

I just get the feeling a Labour, or Labour/SNP government will stifle all that.

Based on what?

I finished Uni and walked straight into a job, gave up that job and formed a startup then finished with that and became a self employed contractor working across international boundaries all in a Labour job market. Manchester got rebuilt and became the most invested city in the world for a short time under Labour. The City of London became a much heavily invested in, worldwide economic powerhouse under Labour.

What possible change could Labour make that you make you any less able to get a job with a top firm? If you're clever enough and have the right results and contacts you'll get a job and it doesn't matter if the BNP get elected

Unless of course JMW is a black immigrant!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

crucial 5 years coming up for me, out of education, in the job market, preferably landing a role within big business in London to get the opportunity to climb the wages ladder.

I just get the feeling a Labour, or Labour/SNP government will stifle all that.

The Blair government didn't.

 

[whp.blue]

crucial 5 years coming up for me, out of education, in the job market, preferably landing a role within big business in London to get the opportunity to climb the wages ladder.

I just get the feeling a Labour, or Labour/SNP government will stifle all that.

The Blair government didn't.

A fine example of a Conservative light Government

 

[BlueHammer85]

crucial 5 years coming up for me, out of education, in the job market, preferably landing a role within big business in London to get the opportunity to climb the wages ladder.

I just get the feeling a Labour, or Labour/SNP government will stifle all that.

Based on what?

I finished Uni and walked straight into a job, gave up that job and formed a startup then finished with that and became a self employed contractor working across international boundaries all in a Labour job market. Manchester got rebuilt and became the most invested city in the world for a short time under Labour. The City of London became a much heavily invested in, worldwide economic powerhouse under Labour.

What possible change could Labour make that you make you any less able to get a job with a top firm? If you're clever enough and have the right results and contacts you'll get a job and it doesn't matter if the BNP get elected

Unless of course JMW is a black immigrant!

Haha !

Damocles is right though, no party will make a significant difference to your choices in life - it's why I prefer to vote for the greater good - not being a selfish tit that thinks a party will mean your life dramatically changes