The General Election Thread

[malg]

I remember reading a good few articles slating PR because First Past the Post gives you a clear majority government, hence a stable government. Well, we're now past that nonsense. I'm a jock, but if the SNP get enough seats to hold sway for a future government, then we are in a poor situation. Not because they're the SNP, as the same could hold for one of the parties in NI (if it was a particularly close run thing), but because the SNP are basically only interested in policies that would benefit Scotland - oh, and I can't argue with that, the clue to their policies is in the name of the party.

Something is wrong with the system, and it's about time it got sorted. That Private Eye cover I posted may be slightly in jest, but it could also be very close to the truth. Either that, or Nick Clegg holds the keys to No10 again.

 

[whp.blue]

I think the whole system needs changing especially now devolution is the next thing coming our way, the system is old and outdated, to me we should scrap the house of lords, reduce parliament to 100 mp's voted on by Proportional representation, and have mayors who seek election for different areas of the country

we would probably get 30 odd tories and labour mp's and a mix of the others, having mayors free from party control would be much better for democracy

The people of manchester could then get a left wing mayor and see how this compares to other parts of the country, the way we are going we are just getting more and more politicians

The only ones who can change it won't though

If Manchester were ever to get a Left wing Mayor with any real power it would be a disaster for the region.
If this ever became even remotely possible I would close my business, putting at least 30 people out of work, sell my house and move.
One term of a left wing Mayor would put the region back 50 years. Left wing ideology doesn't work in the real world.

That is so untrue and narrow minded. Even many Tories will admit that loony left ken Livingstone made some changes that worked wonders for London and especially on transport he made London a better city

I am sorry but you are comparing apples and oranges there Your argument only works because transport in London was such a car crash it was becoming impossible to actually do business within London So no matter what ever anyone did to improve London would always be well received there.
Labour council in Manchester has already tried and failed with congestion charging in Manchester it was laughed out by a huge majority. Manchester isn't London and whilst a Mayor may work there we don't need another level of expensive bureaucracy especially an unchecked left wing one.
Also a Conservative London government have very little to loose and lots to gain by giving power to Manchester as they hardly win any seats here any way and they could basically wash their hands of Manchester and let Labour take the blame for the unmitigated disaster it surely would result in.

As for narrow minded I run a business and a Left wing mayor would not help that in any shape or form.
I have some premises in a Stockport postcode and we get zero business rates business some 1/4 of a mile from me pay £3000+ pa rates to Manchester, I would however in future come under a Manchester mayor.
So my narrow-mindedness is from experience of piss poor left wing local Government

 

[DelToro]

If Manchester were ever to get a Left wing Mayor with any real power it would be a disaster for the region.
If this ever became even remotely possible I would close my business, putting at least 30 people out of work, sell my house and move.
One term of a left wing Mayor would put the region back 50 years. Left wing ideology doesn't work in the real world.

That is so untrue and narrow minded. Even many Tories will admit that loony left ken Livingstone made some changes that worked wonders for London and especially on transport he made London a better city

I am sorry but you are comparing apples and oranges there Your argument only works because transport in London was such a car crash it was becoming impossible to actually do business within London So no matter what ever anyone did to improve London would always be well received there.
Labour council in Manchester has already tried and failed with congestion charging in Manchester it was laughed out by a huge majority. Manchester isn't London and whilst a Mayor may work there we don't need another level of expensive bureaucracy especially an unchecked left wing one.
Also a Conservative London government have very little to loose and lots to gain by giving power to Manchester as they hardly win any seats here any way and they could basically wash their hands of Manchester and let Labour take the blame for the unmitigated disaster it surely would result in.

As for narrow minded I run a business and a Left wing mayor would not help that in any shape or form.
I have some premises in a Stockport postcode and we get zero business rates business some 1/4 of a mile from me pay £3000+ pa rates to Manchester, I would however in future come under a Manchester mayor.

Yeah, business and commerce within Manchester sucks under a Labour council doesn't it?

 

[whp.blue]

That is so untrue and narrow minded. Even many Tories will admit that loony left ken Livingstone made some changes that worked wonders for London and especially on transport he made London a better city

I am sorry but you are comparing apples and oranges there Your argument only works because transport in London was such a car crash it was becoming impossible to actually do business within London So no matter what ever anyone did to improve London would always be well received there.
Labour council in Manchester has already tried and failed with congestion charging in Manchester it was laughed out by a huge majority. Manchester isn't London and whilst a Mayor may work there we don't need another level of expensive bureaucracy especially an unchecked left wing one.
Also a Conservative London government have very little to loose and lots to gain by giving power to Manchester as they hardly win any seats here any way and they could basically wash their hands of Manchester and let Labour take the blame for the unmitigated disaster it surely would result in.

As for narrow minded I run a business and a Left wing mayor would not help that in any shape or form.
I have some premises in a Stockport postcode and we get zero business rates business some 1/4 of a mile from me pay £3000+ pa rates to Manchester, I would however in future come under a Manchester mayor.

Yeah, business and commerce within Manchester sucks under a Labour council doesn't it?

They do very little for small business
Lots of large businesses like the BBC and Manchester City are well looked after but not so much the small firms who only employ 1-10 people.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

That is so untrue and narrow minded. Even many Tories will admit that loony left ken Livingstone made some changes that worked wonders for London and especially on transport he made London a better city

I am sorry but you are comparing apples and oranges there Your argument only works because transport in London was such a car crash it was becoming impossible to actually do business within London So no matter what ever anyone did to improve London would always be well received there.
Labour council in Manchester has already tried and failed with congestion charging in Manchester it was laughed out by a huge majority. Manchester isn't London and whilst a Mayor may work there we don't need another level of expensive bureaucracy especially an unchecked left wing one.
Also a Conservative London government have very little to loose and lots to gain by giving power to Manchester as they hardly win any seats here any way and they could basically wash their hands of Manchester and let Labour take the blame for the unmitigated disaster it surely would result in.

As for narrow minded I run a business and a Left wing mayor would not help that in any shape or form.
I have some premises in a Stockport postcode and we get zero business rates business some 1/4 of a mile from me pay £3000+ pa rates to Manchester, I would however in future come under a Manchester mayor.

Yeah, business and commerce within Manchester sucks under a Labour council doesn't it?

Manchester is marketed and run brilliantly by its city council. They have displayed such vision and judgement in the last couple of decades since the IRA bomb.

 

[hilts]

The general idea though is that if the people want a left wing mayor they should get it, one thing I noticed from ken's and boris time is that even though they were party members they were quite happy to not toe the line, they seemed more concerned in representing the people who voted for them

It would mean less politicians not more, vote for the person not the party, it might even mean the ingrained voters would actually think a bit harder, plenty of labour voters must have switched to boris and vice versa

 

[EalingBlue2]

I am sorry but you are comparing apples and oranges there Your argument only works because transport in London was such a car crash it was becoming impossible to actually do business within London So no matter what ever anyone did to improve London would always be well received there.
Labour council in Manchester has already tried and failed with congestion charging in Manchester it was laughed out by a huge majority. Manchester isn't London and whilst a Mayor may work there we don't need another level of expensive bureaucracy especially an unchecked left wing one.
Also a Conservative London government have very little to loose and lots to gain by giving power to Manchester as they hardly win any seats here any way and they could basically wash their hands of Manchester and let Labour take the blame for the unmitigated disaster it surely would result in.

As for narrow minded I run a business and a Left wing mayor would not help that in any shape or form.
I have some premises in a Stockport postcode and we get zero business rates business some 1/4 of a mile from me pay £3000+ pa rates to Manchester, I would however in future come under a Manchester mayor.

Yeah, business and commerce within Manchester sucks under a Labour council doesn't it?

Manchester is marketed and run brilliantly by its city council. They have displayed such vision and judgement in the last couple of decades since the IRA bomb.

Have to agree as someone who comes from afar every few years back to Manchester I am amazed what a great job has been done in making Manchester a global city and a real second city for the UK.

When you see the way other big industrial cities have gone around the world the councils in Manchester have done a great job.

 

[EalingBlue2]

The general idea though is that if the people want a left wing mayor they should get it, one thing I noticed from ken's and boris time is that even though they were party members they were quite happy to not toe the line, they seemed more concerned in representing the people who voted for them

It would mean less politicians not more, vote for the person not the party, it might even mean the ingrained voters would actually think a bit harder, plenty of labour voters must have switched to boris and vice versa

It is interesting that one of the countries ultimate militants and one of the countries ultimate toffs both pursued many of the same policies for the good of London.

 

[EalingBlue2]

The general idea though is that if the people want a left wing mayor they should get it, one thing I noticed from ken's and boris time is that even though they were party members they were quite happy to not toe the line, they seemed more concerned in representing the people who voted for them

It would mean less politicians not more, vote for the person not the party, it might even mean the ingrained voters would actually think a bit harder, plenty of labour voters must have switched to boris and vice versa

It is interesting that one of the countries ultimate militants and one of the countries ultimate toffs both pursued many of the same policies for the good of London.

 

[Number 1 is Colin Bell]

I am sorry but you are comparing apples and oranges there Your argument only works because transport in London was such a car crash it was becoming impossible to actually do business within London So no matter what ever anyone did to improve London would always be well received there.
Labour council in Manchester has already tried and failed with congestion charging in Manchester it was laughed out by a huge majority. Manchester isn't London and whilst a Mayor may work there we don't need another level of expensive bureaucracy especially an unchecked left wing one.
Also a Conservative London government have very little to loose and lots to gain by giving power to Manchester as they hardly win any seats here any way and they could basically wash their hands of Manchester and let Labour take the blame for the unmitigated disaster it surely would result in.

As for narrow minded I run a business and a Left wing mayor would not help that in any shape or form.
I have some premises in a Stockport postcode and we get zero business rates business some 1/4 of a mile from me pay £3000+ pa rates to Manchester, I would however in future come under a Manchester mayor.

Yeah, business and commerce within Manchester sucks under a Labour council doesn't it?

Manchester is marketed and run brilliantly by its city council. They have displayed such vision and judgement in the last couple of decades since the IRA bomb.

Hear! Hear! It has been a great success since 1996! Manchester has been transformed beyond recognition. Investment works doesnt it?

 

[hilts]

The general idea though is that if the people want a left wing mayor they should get it, one thing I noticed from ken's and boris time is that even though they were party members they were quite happy to not toe the line, they seemed more concerned in representing the people who voted for them

It would mean less politicians not more, vote for the person not the party, it might even mean the ingrained voters would actually think a bit harder, plenty of labour voters must have switched to boris and vice versa

It is interesting that one of the countries ultimate militants and one of the countries ultimate toffs both pursued many of the same policies for the good of London.

It is why I like the system so much, let an English Parliament decide national matters and mayors are responsible for running their regions, if Liverpool and Manchester both had left wing mayors which would be the case and say manchester thrives, the people of Liverpool can quite rightly kick out their mayor, there is no need for party bias in these circumstances, the mayor doesn't even need to belong to a political party

The system now means a local mp has very little power to change anything, he is a small voice in a parties machine

 

[Damocles]

Interesting numbers coming out from the youth voting polls - Greens riding higher than ever and the once "student party" of the Lib Dems are now last, behind populist right wing party UKIP. Got to say that it was a masterstroke from Cameron to force through the tuition fee rise, it has completely obliterated the Lib Dems as any sort of a political force in the UK after being the king makers in the last election. Top politiking from him there.

[bigimg]http://www.ncpolitics.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/20150212-youth-vote-opinion-polls-1024x522.jpg[/bigimg]

According to a Lord Ashcroft poll from Sheffield Hallam, Nick Clegg might even lose his seat!.

 

[Len Rum]

Very interesting chart.
The Tories are good at politicking , way ahead of Labour and Lib Dems.
In the case of the Lib Dems, having been shafted once in coalition, it does make me wonder how on earth could they enter a future coalition with the Tories given the respective parties diametrically opposed views on the EU referendum.

 

[Damocles]

Very interesting chart.
The Tories are good at politicking , way ahead of Labour and Lib Dems.
In the case of the Lib Dems, having been shafted once in coalition, it does make me wonder how on earth could they enter a future coalition with the Tories given the respective parties diametrically opposed views on the EU referendum.

I think the Lib Dems are back to the Paddy Ashdown days in reality and will be nowhere near popular enough to form a coalition over the next few decades. Their forecast of 26 seats won't just lose them the gains they made in 2010, but will actually take them all the way back down to 1992 levels in the Major-Kinnock election! A shame as I'm a Lib Dem voter this coming election.

The interesting slant here is going to be UKIP and how they fare after this election. Will people continue behind them in the same way if they only grab 1 or 2 seats or is this "now or never" scenario in terms of their popularity at national level?

 

[foxy]

I am not partaking in any more political discussions on here. There are some good blues on here who I don't agree with on the political front and vice versa, but over a pint we'd probably get on.

 

[Len Rum]

I am not partaking in any more political discussions on here. There are some good blues on here who I don't agree with on the political front and vice versa, but over a pint we'd probably get on.

Good idea mate , you're far too young for it.
I can remember being worked up over Harold Wilson vs Alec Douglas Home in 1964 which was (like this election) a close race.
Fast forward 51 years and I'm now getting bent out of shape as regards Ed vs Dave.
Why am I bothering? Life's too short.

 

[Rascal]

I am not partaking in any more political discussions on here. .

You never did :))

 

[Len Rum]

Very interesting chart.
The Tories are good at politicking , way ahead of Labour and Lib Dems.
In the case of the Lib Dems, having been shafted once in coalition, it does make me wonder how on earth could they enter a future coalition with the Tories given the respective parties diametrically opposed views on the EU referendum.

I think the Lib Dems are back to the Paddy Ashdown days in reality and will be nowhere near popular enough to form a coalition over the next few decades. Their forecast of 26 seats won't just lose them the gains they made in 2010, but will actually take them all the way back down to 1992 levels in the Major-Kinnock election! A shame as I'm a Lib Dem voter this coming election.

The interesting slant here is going to be UKIP and how they fare after this election. Will people continue behind them in the same way if they only grab 1 or 2 seats or is this "now or never" scenario in terms of their popularity at national level?

I think UKIP will remain a force after the election as long as they get a respectable % of the vote! (irrespective of the number of seats they win).
They will remain a force if as a result of the Election there is to be no EU referendum or a referendum is held and we vote to stay in.
An 'out ' vote means they will fade away, as their rationale for existing will have gone.
Ideal scenario for them is a referendum and a vote to stay in (especially a narrow majority).
Interestingly the EU referendum could result in a in split the Tory party , whatever the result.

 

[hilts]

Very interesting chart.
The Tories are good at politicking , way ahead of Labour and Lib Dems.
In the case of the Lib Dems, having been shafted once in coalition, it does make me wonder how on earth could they enter a future coalition with the Tories given the respective parties diametrically opposed views on the EU referendum.

I think the Lib Dems are back to the Paddy Ashdown days in reality and will be nowhere near popular enough to form a coalition over the next few decades. Their forecast of 26 seats won't just lose them the gains they made in 2010, but will actually take them all the way back down to 1992 levels in the Major-Kinnock election! A shame as I'm a Lib Dem voter this coming election.

The interesting slant here is going to be UKIP and how they fare after this election. Will people continue behind them in the same way if they only grab 1 or 2 seats or is this "now or never" scenario in terms of their popularity at national level?

I think UKIP will remain a force after the election as long as they get a respectable % of the vote! (irrespective of the number of seats they win).
They will remain a force if as a result of the Election there is to be no EU referendum or a referendum is held and we vote to stay in.
An 'out ' vote means they will fade away, as their rationale for existing will have gone.
Ideal scenario for them is a referendum and a vote to stay in (especially a narrow majority).
Interestingly the EU referendum could result in a in split the Tory party , whatever the result.

I can't see immigration slowing down much over the next five years so they will retain a certain amount support, British muslims buggering off to Syria will help also no doubt

 

[Damocles]

Very interesting chart.
The Tories are good at politicking , way ahead of Labour and Lib Dems.
In the case of the Lib Dems, having been shafted once in coalition, it does make me wonder how on earth could they enter a future coalition with the Tories given the respective parties diametrically opposed views on the EU referendum.

I think the Lib Dems are back to the Paddy Ashdown days in reality and will be nowhere near popular enough to form a coalition over the next few decades. Their forecast of 26 seats won't just lose them the gains they made in 2010, but will actually take them all the way back down to 1992 levels in the Major-Kinnock election! A shame as I'm a Lib Dem voter this coming election.

The interesting slant here is going to be UKIP and how they fare after this election. Will people continue behind them in the same way if they only grab 1 or 2 seats or is this "now or never" scenario in terms of their popularity at national level?

I think UKIP will remain a force after the election as long as they get a respectable % of the vote! (irrespective of the number of seats they win).
They will remain a force if as a result of the Election there is to be no EU referendum or a referendum is held and we vote to stay in.
An 'out ' vote means they will fade away, as their rationale for existing will have gone.
Ideal scenario for them is a referendum and a vote to stay in (especially a narrow majority).
Interestingly the EU referendum could result in a in split the Tory party , whatever the result.

UKIP have actually split Labour much less than I considered. I thought they would grab the extreme right, the anti-European Tories and the disaffected working class Labour voters who feel they no longer have a voice. This just hasn't really worked out in terms of those Labour voters, mainly because they are painted by the media to be an anti-immigration party rather than the marketing of the "working class" party that UKIP has tried to position themselves as.

If you look at the seats which UKIP are predicted to have strong showings in, they were all won in 2010 by Tories and are expected to be in 2014 by Tories. I mean if you look at the REALLY Labour safe seats like Walton then UKIP is beating the Tories but have split their vote rather than drew from Labour.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.electionforecast.co.uk/tables/predicted_vote_by_seat.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.electionforecast.co.uk/table ... _seat.html</a>

(The number is percentage chance of winning the seat, click on column headers to sort)

I'm not sure they will have much steam after this election because all of the pomp and enthusiasm to win a single seat sort of belies their professed role as a "major force in UK politics". They'd have the same number of seats as the Greens, and their polling numbers have been falling slightly over the last few weeks.