I think you'll find that the point I was making was about someone making assertions that one party cannot be trusted because they were fiddling their expenses , while another party has as many , and in the views of the general public , probably worse skeletons in their own cupboard.worsleyweb said:Bodicoteblue said:Oh dear , that rather compounds it.worsleyweb said:Yes it does - your pathetic post merited it.
Point scoring about child sex abuse is a fucking joke. Stop being a prick.
Bodicoteblue said:I think you'll find that the point I was making was about someone making assertions that one party cannot be trusted because they were fiddling their expenses , while another party has as many , and in the views of the general public , probably worse skeletons in their own cupboard.worsleyweb said:Bodicoteblue said:Oh dear , that rather compounds it.
Point scoring about child sex abuse is a fucking joke. Stop being a prick.
Glass houses and stone throwing old chap!
As your esteemed colleague , urmston put it , elections are about trust .worsleyweb said:Bodicoteblue said:I think you'll find that the point I was making was about someone making assertions that one party cannot be trusted because they were fiddling their expenses , while another party has as many , and in the views of the general public , probably worse skeletons in their own cupboard.worsleyweb said:Point scoring about child sex abuse is a fucking joke. Stop being a prick.
Glass houses and stone throwing old chap!
My point very much stands.
Bodicoteblue said:As your esteemed colleague , urmston put it , elections are about trust .worsleyweb said:Bodicoteblue said:I think you'll find that the point I was making was about someone making assertions that one party cannot be trusted because they were fiddling their expenses , while another party has as many , and in the views of the general public , probably worse skeletons in their own cupboard.
Glass houses and stone throwing old chap!
My point very much stands.
Apparently labour can't be trusted because of members fiddling their expenses.
I condemn their behaviour totally, they have been caught and justice has been administered.
I see nothing but obfuscation and a total lack of condemnation about the behaviour of members of another party. Indeed , rather than condemning it , I get accused of point scoring, and I am called rather childish names.
Don't shoot the messenger
Trust Indeed , is a very big issue.
blueonblue said:whp.blue said:blueonblue said:THERE IS NO LAW THAT MAKES INDIVIDUALS LIABLE FOR INCOME TAX IN THIS COUNTRY !
Got that ?, not even a statute law that has ever gone before parliament, that's why they are referred to as "Contributions", because you agree to them when you fill out and sign a tax return without understanding.
Anyone who disagrees can look it up for themselves, feel free to post what you find.
I always thought it was The Income Tax act of 1842 ??
So did a lot of people.......until they had a quick read through it ;0). Same with the 1952 act, the trick is to look at WHO is liable and for what, the use of the word "Income" within the act(s) is used to describe profits made from landholdings, commercial trade, and investments, when you fill out a tax return and sign it, you "Volunteer" to pay.
The use of common words with more than one meaning is how "Legalese" works, so all acts have an index defining in what context each word is used,
People are tricked into filling out the forms and signing them under threat of penalty, but the right of silence (You have the right to remain silent) is not just verble, it also means in writing, you can invoke that right and refuse to sign anything.
If you want some fun, next time you have to talk with the tax office simple ask them what law makes YOU liable to pay tax on money you earned working (Not income as defined if they try the above acts).............bet you dont get an answer ;0)
worsleyweb said:Bodicoteblue said:As your esteemed colleague , urmston put it , elections are about trust .worsleyweb said:My point very much stands.
Apparently labour can't be trusted because of members fiddling their expenses.
I condemn their behaviour totally, they have been caught and justice has been administered.
I see nothing but obfuscation and a total lack of condemnation about the behaviour of members of another party. Indeed , rather than condemning it , I get accused of point scoring, and I am called rather childish names.
Don't shoot the messenger
Trust Indeed , is a very big issue.
Cyril smith wasn't a Tory? Sure there are a few deviants on all sides.
Google "Tory expenses fiddlers" - it may be of interest to you.urmston said:I was only pointing out that Labour had 5 MPs jailed for fiddling their expenses, which is essentially theft of public money which should be going on schools, hospitals, care for the elderly etc.
If you are OK voting for a party with morals like that then do so.
I couldn't.
Economically, there's a lot in that post that I profoundly agree with.Chippy_boy said:EalingBlue2 said:Chippy_boy said:Democracy is the best system we've got, but it's not perfect by any means.
One of the glaring shortcomings is that someone who doesn't even live here gets to try to fuck us over by voting for the idiot party. Why don't you vote Monster Raving Loony instead? I suppose because unlike Ed, they can't actually do any damage?
I will do it because it's possible one day I may move back to Britain and because I believe that Britains future is a lot better overall as a fairer society. Haven't decided who I will vote for wont be UKIP and exceptionally unlikely it would be Tory but from afar a vote against greed , prejudice and selfishness shall be coming. As a citizen and father of two citizens is it not my duty?
You should be glad that the cellar has lit a candle towards saving Britain from the worst excesses of the right , will be able to drum up a few more votes over here too!
What utter tripe. Everyone on all sides of the political debate want a decent and fair welfare system, good schools, an excellent health service, police, defence etc. We all want that.
The question is how on earth do we pay for it? The tories believe that a healthy, vibrant and growing economy is the only way to achieve this in the long run. That by taxing less you encourage investment, entrepreneurialism and growth and then you actually raise more in tax revenues to pay for things.
Labour believe you don't have to worry about any of that. Just take more money off rich people. Only there aren't enough really rich people to make a difference, so they have to take it off everyone else as well.
Not only is this morally wrong, it's actually counterproductive: The most creative and wealthy in society just bugger off or jump through loop holes so they don't pay it. Businesses do the same, or burdened with taxes struggle to stay afloat, let alone prosper and grow and employ more people.
High taxes are a tax on jobs, on wealth and everyone suffers under your "fairer" system.
Labour policies are doubtless well intentioned, but they just do not work in reality. That's why every single socialist economy in the history of the world ultimately fails or bottoms out at a lowest common denominator of service levels. Here in the UK, they just fuck it up for 5 or 10 years before getting kicked out again. Then the tories come back in, and spend 5 or 10 years fixing it - which inevitably involves pain - so the public conned by the illusion of it being better under Labour, kick them out again and we go around the loop. Tories fixing it, Labour fucking it up, around and around again.
If we just allow the tories to continue for a while we might actually get the growth, wealth and prosperity - and through that the excellent public services - that we ALL want.
gordondaviesmoustache said:Economically, there's a lot in that post that I profoundly agree with.Chippy_boy said:EalingBlue2 said:I will do it because it's possible one day I may move back to Britain and because I believe that Britains future is a lot better overall as a fairer society. Haven't decided who I will vote for wont be UKIP and exceptionally unlikely it would be Tory but from afar a vote against greed , prejudice and selfishness shall be coming. As a citizen and father of two citizens is it not my duty?
You should be glad that the cellar has lit a candle towards saving Britain from the worst excesses of the right , will be able to drum up a few more votes over here too!
What utter tripe. Everyone on all sides of the political debate want a decent and fair welfare system, good schools, an excellent health service, police, defence etc. We all want that.
The question is how on earth do we pay for it? The tories believe that a healthy, vibrant and growing economy is the only way to achieve this in the long run. That by taxing less you encourage investment, entrepreneurialism and growth and then you actually raise more in tax revenues to pay for things.
Labour believe you don't have to worry about any of that. Just take more money off rich people. Only there aren't enough really rich people to make a difference, so they have to take it off everyone else as well.
Not only is this morally wrong, it's actually counterproductive: The most creative and wealthy in society just bugger off or jump through loop holes so they don't pay it. Businesses do the same, or burdened with taxes struggle to stay afloat, let alone prosper and grow and employ more people.
High taxes are a tax on jobs, on wealth and everyone suffers under your "fairer" system.
Labour policies are doubtless well intentioned, but they just do not work in reality. That's why every single socialist economy in the history of the world ultimately fails or bottoms out at a lowest common denominator of service levels. Here in the UK, they just fuck it up for 5 or 10 years before getting kicked out again. Then the tories come back in, and spend 5 or 10 years fixing it - which inevitably involves pain - so the public conned by the illusion of it being better under Labour, kick them out again and we go around the loop. Tories fixing it, Labour fucking it up, around and around again.
If we just allow the tories to continue for a while we might actually get the growth, wealth and prosperity - and through that the excellent public services - that we ALL want.
The primary issue I have with the Tories (and more so UKIP) is that they, and moreover, those that support them, have a social philosophy that is such an antithesis to my view of the world, that it would feel like an utter act of betrayal to my real self as a person if I ever voted for them. On that particular subject I am resolutely militant.
I am, if I'm being honest, a slightly right-of-centre bloke, who is insanely liberal, and thinks that those on the right are utterly full of shit when it comes to social issues. Utter contempt for their mindset. It's so small-minded.
Who the fuck do I vote for?
Bodicoteblue said:Google "Tory expenses fiddlers" - it may be of interest to you.urmston said:I was only pointing out that Labour had 5 MPs jailed for fiddling their expenses, which is essentially theft of public money which should be going on schools, hospitals, care for the elderly etc.
If you are OK voting for a party with morals like that then do so.
I couldn't.
It's a searing insight into the world of financial probity by members of what appears to be the most moral , upstanding political group ever seen.
You vote for whoever you want, and turn as many blind eyes as you want, but don't try to tell us that any one party has a monopoly on moral rectitude.
Slinging mud is a bit risky as some of it sticks to you too.
gordondaviesmoustache said:Economically, there's a lot in that post that I profoundly agree with.Chippy_boy said:EalingBlue2 said:I will do it because it's possible one day I may move back to Britain and because I believe that Britains future is a lot better overall as a fairer society. Haven't decided who I will vote for wont be UKIP and exceptionally unlikely it would be Tory but from afar a vote against greed , prejudice and selfishness shall be coming. As a citizen and father of two citizens is it not my duty?
You should be glad that the cellar has lit a candle towards saving Britain from the worst excesses of the right , will be able to drum up a few more votes over here too!
What utter tripe. Everyone on all sides of the political debate want a decent and fair welfare system, good schools, an excellent health service, police, defence etc. We all want that.
The question is how on earth do we pay for it? The tories believe that a healthy, vibrant and growing economy is the only way to achieve this in the long run. That by taxing less you encourage investment, entrepreneurialism and growth and then you actually raise more in tax revenues to pay for things.
Labour believe you don't have to worry about any of that. Just take more money off rich people. Only there aren't enough really rich people to make a difference, so they have to take it off everyone else as well.
Not only is this morally wrong, it's actually counterproductive: The most creative and wealthy in society just bugger off or jump through loop holes so they don't pay it. Businesses do the same, or burdened with taxes struggle to stay afloat, let alone prosper and grow and employ more people.
High taxes are a tax on jobs, on wealth and everyone suffers under your "fairer" system.
Labour policies are doubtless well intentioned, but they just do not work in reality. That's why every single socialist economy in the history of the world ultimately fails or bottoms out at a lowest common denominator of service levels. Here in the UK, they just fuck it up for 5 or 10 years before getting kicked out again. Then the tories come back in, and spend 5 or 10 years fixing it - which inevitably involves pain - so the public conned by the illusion of it being better under Labour, kick them out again and we go around the loop. Tories fixing it, Labour fucking it up, around and around again.
If we just allow the tories to continue for a while we might actually get the growth, wealth and prosperity - and through that the excellent public services - that we ALL want.
The primary issue I have with the Tories (and more so UKIP) is that they, and moreover, those that support them, have a social philosophy that is such an antithesis to my view of the world, that it would feel like an utter act of betrayal to my real self as a person if I ever voted for them. On that particular subject I am resolutely militant.
I am, if I'm being honest, a slightly right-of-centre bloke, who is insanely liberal, and thinks that those on the right are utterly full of shit when it comes to social issues. Utter contempt for their mindset. It's so small-minded.
Who the fuck do I vote for?
Bodicoteblue said:Google "Tory expenses fiddlers" - it may be of interest to you.urmston said:I was only pointing out that Labour had 5 MPs jailed for fiddling their expenses, which is essentially theft of public money which should be going on schools, hospitals, care for the elderly etc.
If you are OK voting for a party with morals like that then do so.
I couldn't.
It's a searing insight into the world of financial probity by members of what appears to be the most moral , upstanding political group ever seen.
You vote for whoever you want, and turn as many blind eyes as you want, but don't try to tell us that any one party has a monopoly on moral rectitude.
Slinging mud is a bit risky as some of it sticks to you too.
urmston said:Bodicoteblue said:Google "Tory expenses fiddlers" - it may be of interest to you.urmston said:I was only pointing out that Labour had 5 MPs jailed for fiddling their expenses, which is essentially theft of public money which should be going on schools, hospitals, care for the elderly etc.
If you are OK voting for a party with morals like that then do so.
I couldn't.
It's a searing insight into the world of financial probity by members of what appears to be the most moral , upstanding political group ever seen.
You vote for whoever you want, and turn as many blind eyes as you want, but don't try to tell us that any one party has a monopoly on moral rectitude.
Slinging mud is a bit risky as some of it sticks to you too.
5 Labour MPs jailed for fiddling expenses.
No Tory MPs.
Anyone who votes Labour is effectively condoning the criminality of Labour MPs and their theft of public money.
The facts don't lie.urmston said:Bodicoteblue said:Google "Tory expenses fiddlers" - it may be of interest to you.urmston said:I was only pointing out that Labour had 5 MPs jailed for fiddling their expenses, which is essentially theft of public money which should be going on schools, hospitals, care for the elderly etc.
If you are OK voting for a party with morals like that then do so.
I couldn't.
It's a searing insight into the world of financial probity by members of what appears to be the most moral , upstanding political group ever seen.
You vote for whoever you want, and turn as many blind eyes as you want, but don't try to tell us that any one party has a monopoly on moral rectitude.
Slinging mud is a bit risky as some of it sticks to you too.
5 Labour MPs jailed for fiddling expenses.
No Tory MPs.
Anyone who votes Labour is effectively condoning the criminality of Labour MPs and their theft of public money.
urmston said:Bodicoteblue said:Google "Tory expenses fiddlers" - it may be of interest to you.urmston said:I was only pointing out that Labour had 5 MPs jailed for fiddling their expenses, which is essentially theft of public money which should be going on schools, hospitals, care for the elderly etc.
If you are OK voting for a party with morals like that then do so.
I couldn't.
It's a searing insight into the world of financial probity by members of what appears to be the most moral , upstanding political group ever seen.
You vote for whoever you want, and turn as many blind eyes as you want, but don't try to tell us that any one party has a monopoly on moral rectitude.
Slinging mud is a bit risky as some of it sticks to you too.
5 Labour MPs jailed for fiddling expenses.
No Tory MPs.
Anyone who votes Labour is effectively condoning the criminality of Labour MPs and their theft of public money.
gordondaviesmoustache said:The facts don't lie.urmston said:Bodicoteblue said:Google "Tory expenses fiddlers" - it may be of interest to you.
It's a searing insight into the world of financial probity by members of what appears to be the most moral , upstanding political group ever seen.
You vote for whoever you want, and turn as many blind eyes as you want, but don't try to tell us that any one party has a monopoly on moral rectitude.
Slinging mud is a bit risky as some of it sticks to you too.
5 Labour MPs jailed for fiddling expenses.
No Tory MPs.
Anyone who votes Labour is effectively condoning the criminality of Labour MPs and their theft of public money.
Yeah, I wasn't being entirely serious.....EalingBlue2 said:gordondaviesmoustache said:The facts don't lie.urmston said:5 Labour MPs jailed for fiddling expenses.
No Tory MPs.
Anyone who votes Labour is effectively condoning the criminality of Labour MPs and their theft of public money.
It is very dangerous to take the facts about five individuals and use that to label anyone with a similar characteristic as being the same. It is the very basis for stereotype and prejudice. Not all labour politicians are fraudsters anymore than all Tories support fascist regimes or protect paedophiles.