The Labour Government

[Hertzblue]

And her social revolution of the self over the collective is still apparent.

A lot of the decisions made in her time of government (privatisation of utilities/energy) are the reasons we're in the shit now.

She did emphasise personal responsibility, not so sure outside war time we ever had a culture of the collective.

Agree on Utility privatisation, a triumph of ideology unfortunately, same with the sale of the social housing stock, millions directly benefitted but at great cost to the country.

 

[Hertzblue]

Why did you post a graph from 1970 ffs

I don't make them, it's an OBR graph so it was a decent source. The debate was the notion that are all our ills are due to the last 14 years, my point is that is not the case , go back to 1997 for the start of it. There was no invitation to start going on about anything before that . What can I do ?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Have a look at what I wrote.

That is the opposite of what I wrote.
I replied to a post that contained , yet again, the narrative that everything that is wrong is due to ' the last 14 years"
My reply was to point out that no it demonstrably is not. The graph clearly shows that the public finances were shot to pieces in 2010 when the Cameron government took over, hence austerity. I accept that there are plenty of arguments about whether that was the right direction to take for so long etc but that wasn't the point.
The point is that this narrative that all ills are due to the last 14 years is nonsense.

Not to mention the fact that there were 4 enormous challenges to deal with:

1. The truly dire state of the public finances in 2010
2. Brexit
3. COVID
4. War in Ukraine

Of course the Tories made plenty of blunders but no government would have found it easy navigating those hurdles. If the last year is anything to go by, Labour may well have done worse, we will never know.

 

[Metal Biker]

The Homelessness Minister resigns after evicting her tenants of one of her properties and putting the rent up by £700.

It's like they're doing this on purpose.

 

[bluethrunthru]

The Homelessness Minister resigns after evicting her tenants of one of her properties and putting the rent up by £700.

It's like they're doing this on purpose.

I will set my stall out early - unlikely she had a lot of input in this as it will have been done via letting agents but not a good look for a minister who was pushing a bill through Parliament that would have made her actions as a landlord however remote illegal. Personally I am not sure why ministers when appointed don't voluntarily or are required to divest themselves of all this stuff - mad really. Having said that when I saw it last night and heard her response today about following the law I knew she just had to go - the fact that she left her announcement so late in the day is lamentable because thats just hoping it won't be widely picked up in the media.

However as a counter balance what did you have to say about the countless abuses by the last govt? Like Johnson being sacked as foreign minister for incomptetence and refusing to leave his grace and favour home or the time he occupied the multi million pound property of the exiled tax dodger Lord Bamford for free or ...... well there were loads of abuses like Badenoch claiming for utility bills at her parents house you are welcome to remind us of those breeches that were barely reported.

Esther McVey claims expenses to rent flat while husband lets out nearby home

‘Minister for common sense’ who has criticised Whitehall waste is said to have received £39,000 in two years

www.theguardian.com

 

[blueinsa]

I will set my stall out early - unlikely she had a lot of input in this as it will have been done via letting agents but not a good look for a minister who was pushing a bill through Parliament that would have made her actions as a landlord however remote illegal. Personally I am not sure why ministers when appointed don't voluntarily or are required to divest themselves of all this stuff - mad really. Having said that when I saw it last night and heard her response today about following the law I knew she just had to go - the fact that she left her announcement so late in the day is lamentable because thats just hoping it won't be widely picked up in the media.

However as a counter balance what did you have to say about the countless abuses by the last govt? Like Johnson being sacked as foreign minister for incomptetence and refusing to leave his grace and favour home or the time he occupied the multi million pound property of the exiled tax dodger Lord Bamford for free or ...... well there were loads of abuses like Badenoch claiming for utility bills at her parents house you are welcome to remind us of those breeches that were barely reported.

Esther McVey claims expenses to rent flat while husband lets out nearby home

‘Minister for common sense’ who has criticised Whitehall waste is said to have received £39,000 in two years

www.theguardian.com

Good old Captain Whataboutery ;-)

 

[hampshireblue]

Yes you are right.... just look at what they've done in Wales.

Spending a fortune on a "Clean Air" consultation in a country that is mainly (90%) countryside and has hardly any industry and definitely no money.... not forgetting the millions we are giving to Uganda to plant fucking trees in Uganda.

Some people will just never learn.

Shut up moaning, you get your precious free prescriptions. 90% countryside so ideal for a few tented refugee camps that you want so much. Oh no, I forgot being a NIMBY you won't want them anywhere close.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Good old Captain Whataboutery ;-)

Nothing like a nice bit of deflection for breakfast.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

The Homelessness Minister resigns after evicting her tenants of one of her properties and putting the rent up by £700.

It's like they're doing this on purpose.

And rightly so ....she should've done it quicker tho

 

[Manchester33]

Another poster has already debunked your claim that the public finances were under control up to 1997, so I won't repeat.
As to ..

I have said I voted Reform at the local elections ( for a specific purpose) that does not mean I " intend" to vote for them or anyone else when I am next given the opportunity, I will make that decision at the time. So there is no " fact "
to your claim at all.
If however, when the time comes, that means voting with the " thickos" then that is what I will do . What is the option? to carry on as we are like you seem to want to do, to believe as you do that the country cannot be bankrupt ?
You think that is smart ?
To borrow one from Orwell.
" One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that, no ordinary man could be such a fool"

What do you see Reform doing differently that will really improve public finances (and would you be happy with the impact those decisions would have on the average person)?

Reform and the Tories approach to worsening public finances has and always will be to sell off core services like the NHS. That will have a dramatic impact on 90% of the UK population (for the worse).

 

[BobKowalski]

Good old Captain Whataboutery ;-)

Except it isn’t. Whataboutery would have been defending the minister for not resigning by pointing out similar behaviour by political opponents as an excuse.

Firstly @bluethrunthru acknowledged the minister had to resign and posited that ministers should be obliged to divest financial holdings. The second point is in response to criticism from those who would happily give a pass to those on their side of the political divide who routinely disregarded convention and ethical behavior when in office.

In short the hypocrisy of conservatives and the right in general isn’t going to pass without comment in these matters.

 

[mancityvstoke]

All cunts........all hypocrites, all lining their own pockets.

Fuck off the lot of them. Labour and Conservative.

 

[metalblue]

And her social revolution of the self over the collective is still apparent.

A lot of the decisions made in her time of government (privatisation of utilities/energy) are the reasons we're in the shit now.

In what way are we in the shit now as a consequence of privatisation? Is it specifically the water and power companies as you see it? You’ll know I’m going to be pro privatisation but I do recognise there have been some failings, one being the government selling its own shareholding post privatisation but also some areas perhaps weren’t suitable.

 

[mancityvstoke]

In what way are we in the shit now as a consequence of privatisation? Is it specifically the water and power companies as you see it? You’ll know I’m going to be pro privatisation but I do recognise there have been some failings, one being the government selling its own shareholding post privatisation but also some areas perhaps weren’t suitable.

Whoever ran these things, private or Govt, they'd still be fucked up one way or another.

 

[BlueHammer85]

All cunts........all hypocrites, all lining their own pockets.

Fuck off the lot of them. Labour and Conservative.

then why are they bringing in a bill to massively help renters rights and lives ?

 

[hilts]

I will set my stall out early - unlikely she had a lot of input in this as it will have been done via letting agents but not a good look for a minister who was pushing a bill through Parliament that would have made her actions as a landlord however remote illegal. Personally I am not sure why ministers when appointed don't voluntarily or are required to divest themselves of all this stuff - mad really. Having said that when I saw it last night and heard her response today about following the law I knew she just had to go - the fact that she left her announcement so late in the day is lamentable because thats just hoping it won't be widely picked up in the media.

However as a counter balance what did you have to say about the countless abuses by the last govt? Like Johnson being sacked as foreign minister for incomptetence and refusing to leave his grace and favour home or the time he occupied the multi million pound property of the exiled tax dodger Lord Bamford for free or ...... well there were loads of abuses like Badenoch claiming for utility bills at her parents house you are welcome to remind us of those breeches that were barely reported.

Esther McVey claims expenses to rent flat while husband lets out nearby home

‘Minister for common sense’ who has criticised Whitehall waste is said to have received £39,000 in two years

www.theguardian.com

Look over there someone else..............

Can't be arsed Hans you've been told enough times, post a tweet or summat.

 

[metalblue]

Whoever ran these things, private or Govt, they'd still be fucked up one way or another.

Not all. Some lasting success stories of British Airways and British Telecom for example. Pre privatisation the state was spending (in today’s money) £39bn a year propping up these various public businesses collectively (some very much in the red, others turning a profit). Post privatisation the treasury was receiving (in today’s money) an estimated £288bn on average each year. They also wrote off about £411bn (in today’s money) of debt. Now some of that £288bn was made up of debt repayments etc and the treasury stopped being a direct beneficiary of dividends etc once they sold of their shareholding in the 90s so clearly the high point. It’s also likely that selling our remaining shareholding for a quick boost was shortsighted - a lot of that, if not all, was under the tories I believe.

Corporate greed has certainly plunged our water industry in to crisis, it also suffered from a chronic lack of investment when it was in public ownership. It’s fair to say the rails was a badly implemented privatisation.

 

[Hertzblue]

Except it isn’t. Whataboutery would have been defending the minister for not resigning by pointing out similar behaviour by political opponents as an excuse.

Firstly @bluethrunthru acknowledged the minister had to resign and posited that ministers should be obliged to divest financial holdings. The second point is in response to criticism from those who would happily give a pass to those on their side of the political divide who routinely disregarded convention and ethical behavior when in office.

In short the hypocrisy of conservatives and the right in general isn’t going to pass without comment in these matters.

Wow ,
I have seen it all now on here..
@BobKowalski popping in to give us a lecture on hypocrisy.

Is that the ultimate hypocrisy ? Irony ?

Poacher turned fucking gamekeeper , that's for sure lol

 

[BigJoe#1]

All cunts........all hypocrites, all lining their own pockets.

Fuck off the lot of them. Labour and Conservative.

Hallelujah.... welcome aboard.

I urge anyone to vote for any other party other than these two sets of self centered, greedy, pocket lining, nest feathering individuals.... they really do need a kick up the arse - BIG TIME!!

 

[mancityvstoke]

Hallelujah.... welcome aboard.

I urge anyone to vote for any other party other than these two sets of self centered, greedy, pocket lining, nest feathering individuals.... they really do need a kick up the arse - BIG TIME!!

Not reform though