The Labour Government

[ChicagoBlue]

The one thing I feel in the UK is the lack of energy, certainly in young people. Work does not really pay anymore and being productive does not really pay because we're struggling to pay bills and optimistic goals such as owning a house are becoming impossible. You have to earn well above average to be comfortable.

One major problem is low productivity which I think has actually fallen here since COVID. We can't improve productivity by viewing everything in terms of the deficit and I didn't vote to elect a government that sees a spreadsheet as more important than me.

In the US if you have a dodgy hip which stops you working then do you have to wait a year to get it fixed? This is the reality here. There are hundreds of obstacles like this and couple this with the expensive cost of living, it's bleak.

For many it's almost pointless going to work and that's if you can get there. A few years ago just getting a train into Manchester was difficult because for a period trains either turned up late or they didn't turn up at all, but yes we were still paying record high fare levels.

The end result is people are generally spending less, generally doing less and there is no energy to do more so the economy has flattened and stagnated. Successive governments see this as a deficit increase but do they fix the problems that led us there? No, instead they decide to increase taxes or cut spending and the fundamental problems remain.

I’m sorry, especially because you may feel justified in your bleatings, but all I ever hear from Brits anymore is why not…not how they plan to overcome obstacles, but the minutest detail of why they just can’t!

I now live in a country where people without a pot to piss in MAKE a life for themselves, expecting absolutely nothing from anyone else or society in general.

Again, I’m reminded of Bono’s story about the big house at the top of the hill. The Irish (sub the British!) walk past it shaking a fist saying, “That fucker! He must have screwed so many people to be able to afford a house like that!” However, in America, a Yank walks past that house and points to it, saying, “One day, I’m going to have a house like that!”

And, you can find a million different ways you like to say, “Yeah, but…” but I was that Brit, became that Yank, and now own that house…and I’m just a kid born to distinctly working class parents who grew up in Mossley and went to Ashton Grammar/Sixth Form College.

Life is graft, with the hope of a payoff. It gives you some opportunities and it robs you of others. However, you just have to strategize how you’re going to succeed and work your arse of to do it!

Cue the remonstrations about how I just don’t get it, life here is different, you couldn’t possibly understand, what could you know about it, and every other excuse for why it’s impossible to be successful.

There’s a saying, “Whether you say you can and will, or you say you can’t, you’re always going to be right!”

At 25, I had zero flight hours. By 36, I was a Captain at a global airline. I said I can and I will, while others said I can’t. We were all absolutely right.

The British disease is grievance and bemoaning one’s plight, obviously caused by someone else, from which one simply cannot escape. To that I say, “You’re right,” and leave it alone.

 

[hilts]

Not sure what 70% refers to-certainly not anything I mentioned. But as a point, 70-30 is a vast majority in my book.

I googled how many pensioners have a private pension, the answer i got was 70%.Our view of vast is different then.

Anyhow my view is quite simple you fuck about detrimentally with the state pension it absolutely affects poor pensioners, you tax rich pensioners outside of the state pension you dont affect them.

Vic has a hard on for pensioners for some bizarre reason but it's not something I expect from anyone with decent socialist values.

It's not the pensioners fault Starmer felt the need to take one of the main tools of bringing in money to get himself elected out of the equation.

 

[hampshireblue]

I googled how many pensioners have a private pension, the answer i got was 70%.Our view of vast is different then.

Anyhow my view is quite simple you fuck about detrimentally with the state pension it absolutely affects poor pensioners, you tax rich pensioners outside of the state pension you dont affect them.

Vic has a hard on for pensioners for some bizarre reason but it's not something I expect from anyone with decent socialist values.

It's not the pensioners fault Starmer felt the need to take one of the main tools of bringing in money to get himself elected out of the equation.

More importantly:

A report found that 13% of all pensioners and 18% of single pensioners rely entirely on the State Pension and other state-provided financial entitlements for their income. This indicates that while some pensioners have access to private pensions, they may not be drawing from them, suggesting a significant reliance on state support for their financial stability.

So there are many pensioners, and I know 2 in my family, that have benefitted from building up a SIPP and the associated tax relief, who have no plans whatever to draw down and hence put that money back into the economy.

No one is suggesting we "fuck about detrimentally" with the state pension and it would be a big mistake to allow it to grow to a level above the lowest tax threshold.

According to an in-depth presentation on Sky News last week, pensioners have a significantly lower level of poverty than ever before and a lot lower than child poverty.

 

[Quad]

More tax rises to come , people are struggling and people wonder why people are turning to reform

Personally there all the same

 

[Blue Maverick]

More importantly:

A report found that 13% of all pensioners and 18% of single pensioners rely entirely on the State Pension and other state-provided financial entitlements for their income. This indicates that while some pensioners have access to private pensions, they may not be drawing from them, suggesting a significant reliance on state support for their financial stability.

So there are many pensioners, and I know 2 in my family, that have benefitted from building up a SIPP and the associated tax relief, who have no plans whatever to draw down and hence put that money back into the economy.

No one is suggesting we "fuck about detrimentally" with the state pension and it would be a big mistake to allow it to grow to a level above the lowest tax threshold.

According to an in-depth presentation on Sky News last week, pensioners have a significantly lower level of poverty than ever before and a lot lower than child poverty.

And so they should after all we have been hammered for years to save for old age but then the twats in charge come along to take it all off you because they and their rich mates have fucked up the economy. The failed austerity due to greedy private sector, so let’s take more from your death tax as well because you know how dare you try and leave your kids something. The way the media paints it there’s loads of pensioners with lots of money but their kids haven’t yet if those pensioners want to leave it to their kids they are vilified for it! I read somewhere there is a hell of lot releasing equity in their properties to get it to their kids and reduce the amount of inheritance that could be taxed later.
If your family friends aren’t going to draw it down and spend it, when they die it will be taxed and distributed anyway so either way the government will get their money.

 

[Blue Maverick]

I googled how many pensioners have a private pension, the answer i got was 70%.Our view of vast is different then.

Anyhow my view is quite simple you fuck about detrimentally with the state pension it absolutely affects poor pensioners, you tax rich pensioners outside of the state pension you dont affect them.

Vic has a hard on for pensioners for some bizarre reason but it's not something I expect from anyone with decent socialist values.

It's not the pensioners fault Starmer felt the need to take one of the main tools of bringing in money to get himself elected out of the equation.

What do you consider a rich pensioner though, is it someone who earns a £1 more than the state pension, £10k, £100k? If your state pension can barely cover all your bills a month even with no mortgage so I’d say your not need at least double that to live a comfortable life that’s not rich.

 

[hampshireblue]

And so they should after all we have been hammered for years to save for old age but then the twats in charge come along to take it all off you because they and their rich mates have fucked up the economy. The failed austerity due to greedy private sector, so let’s take more from your death tax as well because you know how dare you try and leave your kids something. The way the media paints it there’s loads of pensioners with lots of money but their kids haven’t yet if those pensioners want to leave it to their kids they are vilified for it! I read somewhere there is a hell of lot releasing equity in their properties to get it to their kids and reduce the amount of inheritance that could be taxed later.
If your family friends aren’t going to draw it down and spend it, when they die it will be taxed and distributed anyway so either way the government will get their money.

And I have advised them to start spending and drawing down, as I am.

 

[mosssideblue]

More tax rises to come , people are struggling and people wonder why people are turning to reform

Personally there all the same

Yes, I wonder why people think reform are the answer as they would be the final nail

 

[BTH]

How has the Mandelson affair been received on the doorstep Victor? All positive I suppose.

I was out on the knocker last night and no-one mentioned it.

How many doors have you knocked recently?

 

[hilts]

What do you consider a rich pensioner though, is it someone who earns a £1 more than the state pension, £10k, £100k? If your state pension can barely cover all your bills a month even with no mortgage so I’d say your not need at least double that to live a comfortable life that’s not rich.

I think you've misunderstood I'm sticking up for pensioners

 

[lefty goldblatt]

The tall geezer to the bloke wearing eye equipment

"YOU SILLY ARSE"

 

[hilts]

More importantly:

A report found that 13% of all pensioners and 18% of single pensioners rely entirely on the State Pension and other state-provided financial entitlements for their income. This indicates that while some pensioners have access to private pensions, they may not be drawing from them, suggesting a significant reliance on state support for their financial stability.

So there are many pensioners, and I know 2 in my family, that have benefitted from building up a SIPP and the associated tax relief, who have no plans whatever to draw down and hence put that money back into the economy.

No one is suggesting we "fuck about detrimentally" with the state pension and it would be a big mistake to allow it to grow to a level above the lowest tax threshold.

According to an in-depth presentation on Sky News last week, pensioners have a significantly lower level of poverty than ever before and a lot lower than child poverty.

Im not going round in circles while you give me examples of well to do pensioners. The state pension only is not a lot of money to live on. That is my view so anyone going on about the triple lock can do one until the state pension is more in line with other decent paying countries.
That is where I stand and where I will stay, if anyone wants to come up with ideas of how to take a bit more off the wealthy then fair enough.

@Blue Maverick rightly states defining what a well to do pensioner is ain't easy. For some reason a few posters seem to have a downer on the temerity of old folk to not be living off bread and water and daring not to pop their clogs for our benefit. :-)

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

They should bite the bullet and whack 5% on income tax across the board and restore the previous NI threshold.
We all know we need to pay more to sort this shit out. The longer we leave it the worse it's going to get.
They should be straight about it. It needs to be done. Manifesto pledges or not .

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I was out on the knocker last night and no-one mentioned it.

How many doors have you knocked recently?

In the bistros of Leamington Spa they are talking of little else.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

They should bite the bullet and whack 5% on income tax across the board and restore the previous NI threshold.
We all know we need to pay more to sort this shit out. The longer we leave it the worse it's going to get.
They should be straight about it. It needs to be done. Manifesto pledges or not .

Well said, Gaylord. We are massively in the shit as a nation and are going to have to pay more tax to try and sort it out, as a civilised society should do.

Am I prepared to pay more tax to try and sort it? Absolutely. Honestly more than happy to.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Well said, Gaylord. We are massively in the shit as a nation and are going to have to pay more tax to try and sort it out, as a civilised society should do.

Am I prepared to pay more tax to try and sort it? Absolutely. Honestly more than happy to.

Indeed. It has to be done. All this bollocksing about, robbing Peter to pay Paul. It's false economy in my book.
Fuck, we were paying 30+% in the late 70's. I'm pretty sure the majority of tax payers would seriously appreciate a grown up approach to fiscal policy.

 

[hilts]

Well said, Gaylord. We are massively in the shit as a nation and are going to have to pay more tax to try and sort it out, as a civilised society should do.

Am I prepared to pay more tax to try and sort it? Absolutely. Honestly more than happy to.

I agree but please put the tax allowances up so the less well off can have it and spend it. Spread the cost amongst the rest of us.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Indeed. It has to done. All this bollocksing about, robbing Peter to pay Paul. It's false economy in my book.
Fuck, we were paying 30+% in the late 70's. I'm pretty sure the majority of tax payers would seriously appreciate a grown up approach to fiscal policy.

People with a few quid might have to eat out a bit less and cut back on the foreign holidays. Doesn’t have to be catastrophic for the economy. Ot the end of the world for them.

And it simply needs to happen.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I agree but please put the tax allowances up so the less well off can have it and spend it. Spread the cost amongst the rest of us.

Of course. Only fair.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

They should bite the bullet and whack 5% on income tax across the board and restore the previous NI threshold.
We all know we need to pay more to sort this shit out. The longer we leave it the worse it's going to get.
They should be straight about it. It needs to be done. Manifesto pledges or not .

I do think we have to look after the lowest paid, maybe increase the tax threshold to offset the rise. Where that level is set is for debate.