The Labour Government

hilts said:
Most of the budget was a bit meh with not a lot to get either excited or depressed about. However the tax on EVs is a disgrace tbh. The extended freeze on personel allowances is also somewhat of a piss take especially to the low paid.
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You have to wonder why she bothered delaying it for so long when it was this benign.

It could have been written in a fortnight… oh wait
 
metalblue said:
Thank fuck for all the leaks as it would have been a whole lot worse. This is absolutely fine by comparison.
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It doesn't look credible.

Even if you ignore the fact that current receipts as a share of GDP is going to a crazy level, the decisions taken today don't really do anything until 2028-29, when they're suddenly expected to reduce borrowing by £10bn and then £22bn the year after.

So all the pain is delayed years ahead of an election, and when they're just about to go to another General Election, they're suggesting that you'll have a sharp slowdown in departmental spending growth and a big increases in taxes.

You don't really have to be a cynic to question it.
 
hilts said:
The labour movement was a reaction to more straightforward times, the haves and the have nots, like centuries past when the peasants revolted against the wealthy elite. As a society there is no longer 2 main groups of people.
The peasants are as likely to blame each other as the well to do's and plenty are happy to hang on to what they have.

You used to go into the polling station with a pretty straightforward choice between blue and red. That is no longer the case. Its why the polls look like they do.
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That was the problem with the Corbyn era slogan, For the Many not the Few.

There are now too few of the Many.
 
hilts said:
He's not taxing companies or the very rich enough, he needs to be braver on inequality of wealth, he's not leading he's gets sucked into media negatives and is shit scared of Reform, his welfare reform attempts have been embarrasing.
Arresting protesters on masse and it sounds like he's about to scrap some jury's sitting. Its a bit too authoritarian.
Frankly he sold himself to the members as a socialist, he ain't. He's a charlatan who only cares about his legacy of becoming PM. You could quite easily slap a blue rosette on him. He's about as radical as one of his beige suits.
Anyhow let's see what tomorrow looks like. Let's see how much he throws to those struggling and how much he's prepared to take off the very wealthy. The people who are no doubt in his 'circle'
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Highest tax burden in history, mansion tax, changes to IHT, and Pensions and national insurance and minimum wage very much hitting business and the wealthy and lots of spending. He is clearly to the left of Tony Blair and clear taxing the rich more than he did and clearly to the left and taxing the rich more than any Tory since Thatcher.

Jury trials are not working most people are probably to thick for the very complex cases. Let’s not pretend he is scrapping all jury trials or is some facist dictator just to try and make silly points

What welfare or tax reforms do you want ?
 
threespires said:
I don't think he can do or is wired to do anything else, that was really my point. To make a difference he'd need to be making wholesale change to the tax system, trying to build or join a coalition to put some guide rails around big tech and a raft of other things he just doesn't have the political capital, allies or will to do. The things he can do and will try to do won't deliver enough to buy him the capital he needs to do the things that might start to make a difference.

All that said right now if he could fix the shitshow of the Blue Car Park I'd vote for him. I might even be inclined to let him pick the f***king team.
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Not clear what changes you want regarding tax.

What about the online safety bill ?
 
I'm an EV owner and have to say apart from the zero emissions and the 'I'm doing my bit for the planet' moral side of it, there isn't really an incentive anymore for going electric. I pay road tax, I pay tax on the electric bill to charge it, so why stick an extra 3p/mile as yet another tax? Supposedly that's going to help maintain the road network because these things are damn heavy and will degrade the surfaces quicker than normal. What Reeves might have missed is the roads need completely ripping up, relaid and strengthened - everywhere! That will cost billions.

So much for the green car revolution; as much as I want it, we are miles behind and playing catch up with the infrastructure. Battery technology will no doubt improve and that means smaller, lighter systems, but years away from that at the moment.
 
threespires said:
Plenty of parallels between then and now. Divide and conquer tactics from the wealthy elite. Self-stratification and in fighting by working people, often based around specific trades seeing themselves as better than others. Big identity divisions between people from rural vs urban backgrounds. Philanthropy by elites offered up as a better model than government doing the job. Plenty of deliberately fermented racism and xenophobia. Bloody Irish navvies coming over here taking our jobs and bringing their religion with them too; fleeing from starvation my arse they're all just economic migrants.

As for the idea that there are not two main groups of people, I think we're increasingly returning to that it's just not recognised to be the case by enough people yet and some that do recognise it have had their heads turned by charlatans.

The labour movements didn't easily coalesce and rise up, plenty of false starts, failed attempts and decades of work. The biggest problematic difference between then and now imo is the rate of pace of charge. We don't have decades for us to get our shit in a pile
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Irish navvies?

All those English people living in the workhouses couldn't build canals?
 
domalino said:
I don’t really see the logic here.

Someone at OBR, which isn't part of the government or Starmer's responsibility at all leaks the 2025 budget, so Labour can't point out the last Tory budget destroyed the economy?

Someone has fucked up here, I don't see how it's Labour. The OBR is independent and supposed to be given the budget by the government ahead of time. Whoever leaked it has nothing to do with Labour and has clearly done this to damage them/undermine the Chancellor.

Meanwhile the markets have reacted well to the budget.
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Unlike Truss, at least Labour asked the OBR.

(Edit: I've just heard someone say it will please Truss as it justifies her not asking the OBR about the effect of her budget proposals!)
 
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metalblue said:
They’ve taken a pessimistic view on growth so this might well be the case.
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I think the growth figures are way out and will be much better than expected going forward.

They are currently low in fact lower after this year. Yet the things affecting growth, inflation, Trumps tariffs, war in Ukraine, Middle East will be over at some point.

We don’t seem to have any positives despite the AI growth Zones, increased spending on public services, especially capital, increased investment, increase defense spending especially domestically and again in capital, more devolution more spending on transport, more spending on for example airports, second Thames crossing etc
 
Brewster's millions said:
You mean the mansion tax that's going to cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of pounds in lost revenue over the next couple of years, because of the detrimental impact its going to have on the housing market, before possibly making a bit of money further out?
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Oh do fuck off!
Pray tell how some London wanker in his £4 million gaff paying a bit more tax will affect the Manchester flat market.
 
WRicko said:
Highest tax burden in history, mansion tax, changes to IHT, and Pensions and national insurance and minimum wage very much hitting business and the wealthy and lots of spending. He is clearly to the left of Tony Blair and clear taxing the rich more than he did and clearly to the left and taxing the rich more than any Tory since Thatcher.

Jury trials are not working most people are probably to thick for the very complex cases. Let’s not pretend he is scrapping all jury trials or is some facist dictator just to try and make silly points

What welfare or tax reforms do you want ?
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I was reading through and about to reply then you said let's not pretend he's scrapping all jury trials, I never said that or made out he was a fascist dictator and I dont really have the urge to debate with liars and govt lackeys.
You will need to put words in other posters mouths because im not playing.

Off you pop.
 
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