The Labour Government

Axel Freed said:
I’m not dismissive of anyone, I work in a pretty normal job in data, I firmly categorise myself as one of the great unwashed

I’m merely dismissive of policies that harm the economy
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Thanks for the reply. You say you're not dismissive but effectively saying anyone in a low "status" role is overpaid even on minimum wage would say otherwise. You open yourself up to someone determining that a worker doing a job in data is well overpaid if they get anything over £12 per hour.

The fact is, for the country to run, there is a massive spread of low level, but crucial roles that need to be carried out and those deserve a sensible reward.
 
hilts said:
Do Denmark like Brown people?
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Becoming more restrictive on immigration and protecting home is sensible but doing this by demonising immigrants and people of different cultures is not. The latter is where the right of our politics is going but that hasn't happened in Denmark. It's a hard place to become an immigrant but it's not a hard place to be an immigrant.

I am totally in favour of sorting the boats problem because of how much it costs. I am not in favour though of crazy policies such as remigration or ending migration completely. It was once purely about numbers but they've quietly changed tact from that because the numbers are falling and will continue to fall.

It's now about 'who' is coming and that's where we get into fascism, xenophobia and lot's of other nasty stuff. I don't care what Denmark do or don't do if that's part of it, we should not be engaging in the stuff that we once fought a war against.
 
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We've got Guardiola said:
Becoming more restrictive on immigration and protecting home is sensible but doing this by demonising immigrants and people of different cultures is not. The latter is where the right of our politics is going but that hasn't happened in Denmark. It's a hard place to become an immigrant but it's not a hard place to be an immigration.

I am totally in favour of sorting the boats problem because of how much it costs. I am not in favour though of crazy policies such as remigration or ending migration completely. It was once purely about numbers but they've quietly changed tact from that because the numbers are falling and will continue to fall.

It's now about 'who' is coming and that's where we get into fascism, xenophobia and lot's of other nasty stuff. I don't care what Denmark do or don't do if that's part of it, we should not be engaging in the stuff that we once fought a war against.
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The numbers argument you have made are a nonsense, people talked about immigration when it was a few hundred thousand. It got much larger and recently it has dropped to somewhere near where it was when it was being talked about originally. Changing tact has got fuck all to do with it.

Also people rightly look at scandavians as a fine example of progressive Socialism, like Denmark who have decided to get very strong on immigration.
Maybe they are xenophobic or fascist all of a sudden.

Anyhow simple people will carry on with their simple views.
 
hilts said:
The numbers argument you have made are a nonsense, people talked about immigration when it was a few hundred thousand. It got much larger and recently it has dropped to somewhere near where it was when it was being talked about originally. Changing tact has got fuck all to do with it.

Also people rightly look at scandavians as a fine example of progressive Socialism, like Denmark who have decided to get very strong on immigration.
Maybe they are xenophobic or fascist all of a sudden.

Anyhow simple people will carry on with their simple views.
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The main thing I see today is the immigration argument is no longer about immigration, it is about culture. With Brexit it was supposedly about numbers but it was actually about cultural xenophobia. It was about sticking one to Europe and getting rid of the 10 poles next door and that kind of thing. The reality is we shut the door to hundreds of thousands of people who work here, start families and generally contribute and we're not better off for it.

The same rhetoric is happening now. You never hear the right say oh immigration numbers are coming down so I'm a little bit happier. They're actually now saying hey I see more Muslims on my street so what are you going to do about it? It is a cultural argument that just so happens to involve immigration. They have no problem whatsoever with helping out millions of white Ukrainians

Denmark are strong on immigration but they're quite clearly not asking to eliminate Muslim communities which is basically what the Tommy Robinson brigade want. They want an authoritarian regime which will hound out anybody who doesn't look like them... We fought this kind of thing back in 1939!
 
We've got Guardiola said:
The main thing I see today is the immigration argument is no longer about immigration, it is about culture. With Brexit it was supposedly about numbers but it was actually about cultural xenophobia. It was about sticking one to Europe and getting rid of the 10 poles next door and that kind of thing. The reality is we shut the door to hundreds of thousands of people who work here, start families and generally contribute and we're not better off for it.

The same rhetoric is happening now. You never hear the right say oh immigration numbers are coming down so I'm a little bit happier. They're actually now saying hey I see more Muslims on my street so what are you going to do about it? It is a cultural argument that just so happens to involve immigration. They have no problem whatsoever with helping out millions of white Ukrainians

Denmark are strong on immigration but they're quite clearly not asking to eliminate Muslim communities which is basically what the Tommy Robinson brigade want. They want an authoritarian regime which will hound out anybody who doesn't look like them... We fought this kind of thing back in 1939!
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Your post just proves my point, you have a very narrow view. I think we can put racists/Tommy Robinsons crew in the no shit sherlock box.

So let's deal with the rest of your post

Immigration has always been about numbers and culture, the culture part is not new. Some people for example would like the whole country to be Atheist because they think religion is not only illogical but dangerous. There is a difference between preference and prejudice.

The little bit happier part has been covered, if someone wasnt happy at 200,000 then it went to 800,000 then back to 200,000 why would they be happy? they might be relieved its not quite as barmy, how do you know they aint? You been wandering around asking strangers?

We were not happy with the poles(erm not brown or muslim generally, whoops thought it was brown folk) but are with Ukrainians. So do we like white eastern Europeans or not? Thats one of the funnier ones I must admit.
Maybe just maybe people saw the Russians invading.the country and against your view these racists and facists maybe aint that at all, they will accept people in certain circumstances.

Denmark are strong on immigration, they aint a far right country thus dispelling the easy lazy argument - dont like mass immigration must be right wing or fascist or racist or xenophobic or all of them.

Not everyone belongs in the box you wish to put them in, you may not agree with people based on your view that forever growth is a good thing and that's fine but you are doing precisely what racists do. Pick a large group of people and demean them.

You even threw in 1939 but at least managed to avoid Hitler I suppose.
 
Tories blurring that fine line between criticism of someone's work to being personal about the person in PMQs.

I'm not the biggest fan of Reeves politically, but some of the personal attacks on her are going too far.

I cannot recall a previous chancellor recieving so much personal abuse in parliament.
 
TinFoilHat said:
Tories blurring that fine line between criticism of someone's work to being personal about the person in PMQs.

I'm not the biggest fan of Reeves politically, but some of the personal attacks on her are going too far.

I cannot recall a previous chancellor recieving so much personal abuse in parliament.
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Comes from the top down. Badenoch can be a nasty piece of work imho
 
hilts said:
Your post just proves my point, you have a very narrow view. I think we can put racists/Tommy Robinsons crew in the no shit sherlock box.

So let's deal with the rest of your post

Immigration has always been about numbers and culture, the culture part is not new. Some people for example would like the whole country to be Atheist because they think religion is not only illogical but dangerous. There is a difference between preference and prejudice.

The little bit happier part has been covered, if someone wasnt happy at 200,000 then it went to 800,000 then back to 200,000 why would they be happy? they might be relieved its not quite as barmy, how do you know they aint? You been wandering around asking strangers?

We were not happy with the poles(erm not brown or muslim generally, whoops thought it was brown folk) but are with Ukrainians. So do we like white eastern Europeans or not? Thats one of the funnier ones I must admit.
Maybe just maybe people saw the Russians invading.the country and against your view these racists and facists maybe aint that at all, they will accept people in certain circumstances.

Denmark are strong on immigration, they aint a far right country thus dispelling the easy lazy argument - dont like mass immigration must be right wing or fascist or racist or xenophobic or all of them.

Not everyone belongs in the box you wish to put them in, you may not agree with people based on your view that forever growth is a good thing and that's fine but you are doing precisely what racists do. Pick a large group of people and demean them.

You even threw in 1939 but at least managed to avoid Hitler I suppose.
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This is ridiculous because what is an acceptable number and how long is a piece of string? We should point immigration towards our needs and not to what the population blindly finds acceptable.

If we ask a growing number of people on the street then they'll say we need zero migration. What they don't consider is the fact that it's too late to change your mind when you're dying on an operating theatre table because there aren't enough doctors.

Without sustained immigration the population will collapse over the coming decades because people are having less children. The Scandinavian countries such as Denmark do better than us because they have fantastic rights for people who have kids, we don't. The best people in the world do not want to come here now so voting in a party like Reform will ensure that stays that way so there will be a massive shortage of people.

What the population really wants is the Scandinavian system however they are muddled in what they're being sold by Reform where immigration is apparently the fault of everything. It was the same with Brexit, we were sold the land of milk and honey after Brexit, Farage then ran off and it's now worse than it was before. We shouldn't be trusting these utter thieves and grifters.
 

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MP who voted against inheritance tax for farmers has Labour whip suspended​

Penrith and Solway MP Markus Campbell-Savours has had the Labour whip suspended after voting against the government last night.

The MP, first elected in 2024, was the sole government backbencher to vote against the motion to change inheritance tax rules for farmers, which was part of the budget measures approved last night.

Bit like those MPs who opposed the 2 child cap getting booted out a while back but now Starmer is so super proud of it being removed and how it’s the right thing to do. Is reelection the only thing he stands for?
 
hampshireblue said:
Thanks for the reply. You say you're not dismissive but effectively saying anyone in a low "status" role is overpaid even on minimum wage would say otherwise. You open yourself up to someone determining that a worker doing a job in data is well overpaid if they get anything over £12 per hour.

The fact is, for the country to run, there is a massive spread of low level, but crucial roles that need to be carried out and those deserve a sensible reward.
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They are overpaid in the sense that they’re paid more than their market value due to artificial rules imposed on employers by the government. These rules stifle growth and lead to rising unemployment, rising prices etc.

Most low paid jobs aren’t crucial and to me a sensible wage is one set by the market. If the minimum wage was abolished and companies paid the market rate, people would still work those jobs.

Anyhow I think we should agree to differ as I’m not on a crusade to persecute anyone on a low wage, anybody who gets up and goes to work in the morning is a useful member of society in my book. My ire is directed at the bone idle freeloading benefit scroungers.
 
Axel Freed said:
They are overpaid in the sense that they’re paid more than their market value due to artificial rules imposed on employers by the government. These rules stifle growth and lead to rising unemployment, rising prices etc.

Most low paid jobs aren’t crucial and to me a sensible wage is one set by the market. If the minimum wage was abolished and companies paid the market rate, people would still work those jobs.

Anyhow I think we should agree to differ as I’m not on a crusade to persecute anyone on a low wage, anybody who gets up and goes to work in the morning is a useful member of society in my book. My ire is directed at the bone idle freeloading benefit scroungers.
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Hospital porters, cleaners, care workers.... all fairly crucial. No company can function without these roles and therefore determining their "market value" is very subective. If your office isn't cleaned overnight you'll be the first to know and probably have a moan. If Axel the data analyst is off sick or on holiday, who notices or cares? Who's more important to the running of the business?
 
Earlyriser said:
It would help if you were not overly selective. He's proposing that for any offence that carries a sentence of 3 years or under should not have a jury trial. I don't see a problem with this. The type of offences that would fall into this are those generally committed by the scum bags of society eg theft, benefit fraud, dangerous driving, drug possession and some forms of assault. Why block the courts up with these wasters.
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Agree with this but speaking of being selective I wish Starmer would stop saying he’s taking £150 off energy bills implying we all get it because we don’t! Did it again in PMQs.
 
Axel Freed said:
They are overpaid in the sense that they’re paid more than their market value due to artificial rules imposed on employers by the government. These rules stifle growth and lead to rising unemployment, rising prices etc.

Most low paid jobs aren’t crucial and to me a sensible wage is one set by the market. If the minimum wage was abolished and companies paid the market rate, people would still work those jobs.

Anyhow I think we should agree to differ as I’m not on a crusade to persecute anyone on a low wage, anybody who gets up and goes to work in the morning is a useful member of society in my book. My ire is directed at the bone idle freeloading benefit scroungers.
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hampshireblue said:
Hospital porters, cleaners, care workers.... all fairly crucial. No company can function without these roles and therefore determining their "market value" is very subective. If your office isn't cleaned overnight you'll be the first to know and probably have a moan. If Axel the data analyst is off sick or on holiday, who notices or cares? Who's more important to the running of the business?
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I think I agree with both of you somewhat. If someone is working their bollocks off in ANY job then they deserve a decent lifestyle. Now I'm going out in a few minutes to walk the dog and my wife and self will each get a Latte/Cappuchino costing £3.25. Would we pay £5 a cup to give the staff a decent wage to match their efforts? Dunno. Likewise though there is obviously a very large group of people who are just working the system and 'robbing' from the rest of society. That needs calling out by everyone, even die hard leftists. Everyone who can should contribute.
 
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