The Labour Government

WRicko said:
I don’t think the government are saying anything either way and even when they have it’s been months or nearly a year out of date in time frame. Plenty of people including Jews and experts think it is a genocide but regardless of it being a genocide or not opposing one and supporting a Palestinian state is not Islamist if it is then that says something worrying about things that are not Islamist would also make the Greens and I guess the lib dems Islamist
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with wanting a Palestinian AND a Jewish state. The problem, and where true genocidal intent lies, is with those who do not want a Palestinian AND a Jewish state.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Not necessarily.

I get the feeling Starmer is hated more than his party, like Thatcher was towards the end. You never know, maybe Streeting could do a John Major? We shouldn't discount a new manager bounce just yet.
Click to expand...
Streeting is a cabinet minister and is severely lacking in charisma, authenticity and comms skills. He will not cut through to a wider electorate who are disenfranchised.

And for the record I like John Major and would’ve probably voted for him in 1992 if I was old enough back then!
 
The perfect fumble said:
What genocide?

Civilian casualties in Gaza, while high, do not prove a specific intent to destroy the group in whole or in part, which is required for a legal definition of genocide.

The UK government has stated that it does not consider the actions in Gaza to constitute genocide.
Click to expand...
A genocide doesn't have to be a simple loss of life. It can be the erasure of a culture in favour of another which is surely what's happening. I would only go down your route and disagree if the Palestinans were being offered a place within Israel or statehood but neither of these is happening.

The Palestinians are a culture and we know that as fact because they were on that land first so their culture is tied to that land. To compare there are Israeli-Americans now living on that land who have never lived in those areas. Do they have a greater claim to that land meaning the forced removal of the people who lived there before?

I believe that Israel has every right to exist but how Israel was created and the net result today is what makes things extremely difficult. The most obvious answer knowing what we know today is there should be two states on agreed lines or a single secular state but as we've seen neither of these is possible but that's through our own doing.

We have created a situation where one side of the equation has nuclear weapons, F-35's and laser guided bombs and the other side has none of that. So of course there won't be peace. Israel is very well equipped and supported to do exactly what it wants unopposed.... And that is exactly what it is doing.

The UK under Starmer now recognises the state of Palestine except it is not enacting any means for Palestine to become a state.
 
The perfect fumble said:
What genocide?

Civilian casualties in Gaza, while high, do not prove a specific intent to destroy the group in whole or in part, which is required for a legal definition of genocide.

The UK government has stated that it does not consider the actions in Gaza to constitute genocide.
Click to expand...
I’m less concerned with specific definitions, more concerned with reports that over 20,000 children have been killed in, what can only be described as, extremely heavy handed tactics at best.
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
Streeting is a cabinet minister and is severely lacking in charisma, authenticity and comms skills. He will not cut through to a wider electorate who are disenfranchised.

And for the record I like John Major and would’ve probably voted for him in 1992 if I was old enough back then!
Click to expand...
With respect that's a bit of hindsight, Major had been Chancellor under Thatcher and if anything his political profile was duller and less charismatic than Streeting's is now.

sddefault.jpg
 
Ban-jani said:
I’m less concerned with specific definitions, more concerned with reports that over 20,000 children have been killed in, what can only be described as, extremely heavy handed tactics at best.
Click to expand...
That's commendable, but words are a powerful tool, they can not only shape perception but the ideologue uses them in an attempt to refashion material reality itself.

And as we know words have both intended and unintended consequences.
 
Last edited:
The perfect fumble said:
With respect that's a bit of hindsight, Major had been Chancellor under Thatcher and if anything his political profile was duller and less charismatic than Streeting's is now.

sddefault.jpg
Click to expand...
I know, but the media landscape was vastly different then.

The attention span of the electorate is now about 1 second if that. Social media is to blame for this.

Major would’ve been doomed in today’s politics.

Whoever is going to succeed need to have an instant media pazazz. I can’t stand Farage or Polanski but they both have that. As did Johnson.

Tony Blair had it.

The only politician in the Labour stable who has it now is Burnham.
 
mosssideblue said:
Ange cleared by HMRC. Will she now throw her hat in the ring….
Click to expand...
Betting is close but the order of favourites (on Betfair) is Rayner, Burnham, Miliband and Streeting. Like her or loathe her but Rayner is probably closest to being what Labour should be, supporting the working class. Miliband I cannot fathom why anyone would support. Burnham and Streeting are professional politicians by trade.
 
Palerider said:
Betting is close but the order of favourites (on Betfair) is Rayner, Burnham, Miliband and Streeting. Like her or loathe her but Rayner is probably closest to being what Labour should be, supporting the working class. Miliband I cannot fathom why anyone would support. Burnham and Streeting are professional politicians by trade.
Click to expand...
Agreed, she would take no shit and put the country first.

Sadly, many right wingers on here will complain she doesn't speak properly
 
mosssideblue said:
Agreed, she would take no shit and put the country first.

Sadly, many right wingers on here will complain she doesn't speak properly
Click to expand...
Rayner would be the choice for traditional Labour values. Around 2.7million are on minimum wage and would be a major voting bloc if they could get their arses down to the voting booth. However the voting power is with the 13.4 million state pensioners who tend to push their zimmer frames down to the voting booth regardless of weather. I'm a pensioner myself and do not know anyone who likes Rayner! So a big choice for Labour, pick wrongly and they could be vying with the Tories for who has cocked up most.
 
mosssideblue said:
Agreed, she would take no shit and put the country first.

Sadly, many right wingers on here will complain she doesn't speak properly
Click to expand...
It isn't "right wing" to expect the leader of your country to speak properly and carry themselves with dignity and seriousness, especially on the global stage.

Johnson was an embarrassment in his physical appearance, Raynor would be embarrassing in the way she speaks. Pointing that out is not unreasonable.
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
It isn't "right wing" to expect the leader of your country to speak properly and carry themselves with dignity and seriousness, especially on the global stage.

Johnson was an embarrassment in his physical appearance, Raynor would be embarrassing in the way she speaks. Pointing that out is not unreasonable.
Click to expand...
Couldn’t care less if they had a stutter, lisp or any speech impediment as long as they were effective at delivering.

Johnson was also an embarrassment at orating
 
mosssideblue said:
Couldn’t care less if they had a stutter, lisp or any speech impediment as long as they were effective at delivering.

Johnson was also an embarrassment at orating
Click to expand...
A significant part of that delivery is representing the country at a strategic level globally. This is actually something Starmer has been brilliant at.

I'm sorry but you can't have Angela Rayner sat round the table at NATO or the UN or the G7 in discussions with global leaders.

These surface level things shouldn't matter but they do.

Just like you don't turn up to a job interview in flip flops and a t shirt.

Cameron was wrong about plenty of things but he was right about telling Corbyn to wear a proper suit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top