The Labour Party

[Cheesy]

so you'll abandon them on the back of an orchestrated smear campaign come on we're all blues we don't fall for that kind of shit

"Smear campaign" ?

You and your like have no shame.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

No doubt that is happening but it’s off the back of historical alleged abuse and it’s own MP’s saying the party has a huge issue.

The truth will no doubt lie somewhere in the middle and be nowhere near as bad as made out but there is an issue and it revolves around Momentum.

I’m 48 and have voted Labour all my life but whilst they have a grip on the party I will never vote for them again.

The current state of the Labour party is similar to when it was associated with Militant Tendency of the
'70's, although at the time that was not an organisation viewed with any favour by the party leadership, unlike today,
where you have a confessed Marxist in one of the senior party positions. The appointments of the two main leaders,
both of whom who have had direct links with terrorist organisations, is never going to win over the electorate, and it's
now being witnessed, as despite the battering the Tories have taken, Labour is still behind.
You can always recruit the kids into socialist politics, it's easy, with no experience of past events, their altruistic
and egalitarian proclivity naturally leads them towards it, and of course, they're not paying for it, but they won't
win elections for you, look at the turnouts at elections, so the problem of getting into power will persist.

 

[urban genie]

No doubt that is happening but it’s off the back of historical alleged abuse and it’s own MP’s saying the party has a huge issue.

The truth will no doubt lie somewhere in the middle and be nowhere near as bad as made out but there is an issue and it revolves around Momentum.

I’m 48 and have voted Labour all my life but whilst they have a grip on the party I will never vote for them again.

The problem is when people like watson are doing it for his own gain (he has form for stabbing the party leadership in the back for self interest after all), and generalising and supporting the obviously false narative that the labour party as a whole is supporting anti-semtism he is winding up local members which is causing, in some local CLPs resentment towards the JLM leading to anti-Isaeli/anti-Likud/Netanyahu sentiment crossing the line into anti-semetism.

I will give an example, last year the party agreed that anti-semitism training would be delivered by the JLM to each CLP to help in reducting and enhance the understanding of anti-semetism.
The trainers turned up at a CLP meeting and gave a the training which was all good and well recieved, everyone in unison.
After a talk about it generally ws done and the trainer answered questions, when one member stated he didn't think it was such an issue at this CLP which had a long history of a mixed membership (catholics, muslims, jews, prods, hindu etc) and was a largely ethnicly diverse constituency and also highlightly that the MP for decades had been jewish.
That is when it went a bit off as the JLM trainer responded with "well , erm yeah , but that MP was know not to be quite pro jewish"
The fact the MP was Jewish, but supported palestinian rights seemed in this JLM trainers eyes made him, (and I use the term used by the Board of Directors not my personal opinion), "the wrong kind of jew"

Well this wound up some people in that session and had people moaning that it's all a load of bollocks and you are now being tarnished for having an opinion on a political issue, it ended all well with a good discussion had by all and members apreciated the session, but left a bad taste with some that it was so wasy to be categarised and demonised, and if you dissagreed were in danger or being classed as racist.

Now the relationship between the JLM and that CLP is still very good and have had speakers invited back and had good sessions, but imagine a CLP where you, as a memebership is constantly being tarnished, whether rightly or wrongly as anti-semetic or racist, well this is breeding a lot of resentment and stoking up divison locally.

I know members that are fed up and rather than debate of try and argue the case, feel exaceberated would rather now just tell people to fuck off in frustration as they see any conversation pointless, watson shit stirring is not helping, and he is not doing it for anything but his own ends.

Coup attempt take 3 by the man.

We as a membership know their is a minority of racist, anti-semite, islamaphobic, anti-christian, sexist, selection in the party that we find to be twats and have no place with us.
We also know that using twitter especially as a measure of labours problems is ridiculous, yet this is how the mbership is being judged, by cranks and ****s on social media, many of them not even labour supporters or members.

Williamson is dick head that the left wing memebrship groups on the party have been trying to get rid of for years btw, seen as a crank and clown that harms us more than helps.

Labour is fucked atm as while there is issues to be dealt with amd serious inward questions of how it deals.with itself, and some people like berger have been seriously effected and treated badly, others are using it to take advantage.

In the end I am a member, I ain't anti-semetic, I'm not even anti-israeli, not racist, but know in my time I will have remarks that have been xenophobic (who hasn't slagged off the french at some point). I am not a misogynist, but have been seixst at times, I have been sectarian in my younger days when us catholic school kids would fight the CoE kids at the chippy or end of term.
That is me personally, every other member will be different and have different levels of any of those, to have basically 4500000 people be called racist and anti-semetic as watson, unuman, leslie and gapes have recently has pissed a lot off leading to anger.

Me personally thinks fuck it cannot be arsed getting annoyed, I thought watson was a **** when he stabbed blair in the back, undermined brown and criticised milliband that is why I never voted for him as DL.

Corbyns a bellend that ignores issues he doesn't like, the PLP are çunts

 

[urban genie]

There has been a big push by members this week to start addressing the concerns starting with the appoligy letter that all can sign up to and also mommentum are putting out some strong vids trying to educate members and non members.


Public spats from the Gen Sec and DL ar enot helping

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

theyve changed so much recently. id say their traditional base is abandoning them and they are going after the metropolitan sort of london based voter. long term i think thats a mistake as they wont win an election. like most politicians swell they lie and say whatever they think is popular to try and get votes.

 

[urban genie]

theyve changed so much recently. id say their traditional base is abandoning them and they are going after the metropolitan sort of london based voter. long term i think thats a mistake as they wont win an election. like most politicians swell they lie and say whatever they think is popular to try and get votes.

What a load of nonsense, they have always had strong support in the cities historically nationwude and the target areas are not London metropolitans but marginals across the cpumtry.

On a side note the use of "metropolitan" was a politicl trope used by the right wing press to hide racist overtones, which has seeped into the language used for something completely different, much like snowflake

 

[Chippy_boy]

The current state of the Labour party is similar to when it was associated with Militant Tendency of the
'70's, although at the time that was not an organisation viewed with any favour by the party leadership, unlike today,
where you have a confessed Marxist in one of the senior party positions. The appointments of the two main leaders,
both of whom who have had direct links with terrorist organisations, is never going to win over the electorate, and it's
now being witnessed, as despite the battering the Tories have taken, Labour is still behind.
You can always recruit the kids into socialist politics, it's easy, with no experience of past events, their altruistic
and egalitarian proclivity naturally leads them towards it, and of course, they're not paying for it, but they won't
win elections for you, look at the turnouts at elections, so the problem of getting into power will persist.

Excellent post imo.

Add into the mix, bribing students to vote for you and that only adds to the popularity amongst the naive and inexperienced. But as you say, being up to 10 points behind this shambles of a Tory party, with the most dismal PM in living memory, mid-term and with all the shite of Brexit going on - is nothing short of a disgrace. Until the party wakes up and gets rid of Momentum, Corbyn, McDonnell and their loony doctrines, it will always be a party protesting from the sidelines.

The problem is, how on earth does it rid itself of this disease? It's very difficult to see a way out. Even when Corbyn and McDonnell have died, Momentum will simply have installed another hard left extremist. Very ironically indeed, what they need is "New Labour", and yet the man who brought them that - and with it 3 successive terms in office - is the man they most despise.

 

[blueinsa]

Excellent post imo.

Add into the mix, bribing students to vote for you and that only adds to the popularity amongst the naive and inexperienced. But as you say, being up to 10 points behind this shambles of a Tory party, with the most dismal PM in living memory, mid-term and with all the shite of Brexit going on - is nothing short of a disgrace. Until the party wakes up and gets rid of Momentum, Corbyn, McDonnell and their loony doctrines, it will always be a party protesting from the sidelines.

The problem is, how on earth does it rid itself of this disease? It's very difficult to see a way out. Even when Corbyn and McDonnell have died, Momentum will simply have installed another hard left extremist. Very ironically indeed, what they need is "New Labour", and yet the man who brought them that - and with it 3 successive terms in office - is the man they most despise.

It shows that even when the country threw the Tories out, they only did so because they had a Tory lite government to turn to.

There is simply no appetite for a hard left socialist government in this country.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

What a load of nonsense, they have always had strong support in the cities historically nationwude and the target areas are not London metropolitans but marginals across the cpumtry.

On a side note the use of "metropolitan" was a politicl trope used by the right wing press to hide racist overtones, which has seeped into the language used for something completely different, much like snowflake

its not a load of nonsense at all. i never said they didnt have support in cities historically did i. i was on about the type of voter..... the core base - working areas in the midlands and the north - lots of of voters dont vote them anymore and are leaving them- thats not nonsense is it. they are very much going after the london middle class crowd. organizations like momentum are perfect examples of that. metropolitan for me nd most people has nothing to do with colour.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Excellent post imo.

Add into the mix, bribing students to vote for you and that only adds to the popularity amongst the naive and inexperienced. But as you say, being up to 10 points behind this shambles of a Tory party, with the most dismal PM in living memory, mid-term and with all the shite of Brexit going on - is nothing short of a disgrace. Until the party wakes up and gets rid of Momentum, Corbyn, McDonnell and their loony doctrines, it will always be a party protesting from the sidelines.

The problem is, how on earth does it rid itself of this disease? It's very difficult to see a way out. Even when Corbyn and McDonnell have died, Momentum will simply have installed another hard left extremist. Very ironically indeed, what they need is "New Labour", and yet the man who brought them that - and with it 3 successive terms in office - is the man they most despise.

I think you understate with your phrase 'The most dismal PM in living memory,' I'd go as far to say it's the most dismal
PM in any fuckers memory, including my great Grandad.
Which just goes to show how abysmal the current opposition is, it's like City fielding the under 18's against the Dippers
and them responding by fielding Shankly's team at the age they are now.