The most incompetent, ill written city article ever

[Rolee]

Large wages don't seem to prevent United, Liverpool and Chelsea offloading players. We've had problems with getting rid of deadwood for salaries since 2009 (I know Mills and a few others came before) so these things need to be actively worked upon. We may not need the money, but it's certainly not ideal.

Chelsea just loaned out Cuadrado for three years, yes you read that right, 3 years.

Liverpool just let Balotelli go for nothing.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Large wages don't seem to prevent United, Liverpool and Chelsea offloading players. We've had problems with getting rid of deadwood for salaries since 2009 (I know Mills and a few others came before) so these things need to be actively worked upon. We may not need the money, but it's certainly not ideal.

Perhaps you have a few examples of Utd Liverpool & Chelsea moving on unwanted big signings for decent money.

Or would selling Bony Mangala Hart & Nasri for fuck all rather than loaning them out, be seen as good business ?

Maybe we could start with Cudrado.

 

[BlueTG]

The thirty-eight players on loan from Chelsea:

Here goes: Tammy Abraham - Bristol City, Nathan Ake - Bournemouth, Bekanty Victorien Angban - Granada, Christian Atsu - Newcastle, Baba Rahman - Schalke, Lewis Baker - Vitesse Arnhem, Patrick Bamford - Burnley, Nathan Baxter - Metropolitan Police (until January), Mitchell Beeney - Crawley (until January), Jamal Blackman - Wycombe (until January), Jeremie Boga - Granada, Isaiah Brown - Rotherham, Andreas Christensen - Borussia Monchengladbach, Jake Clarke-Salter - Bristol Rovers, Charlie Colkett - Bristol Rovers, Dion Conroy - Aldershot (until January), Juan Cuadrado - Juventus (three-year loan), Cristian Cuevas - Sint-Truidense, Alex Davey - Crawley (until January), Matej Delac - Royal Excel Mouscron, Islam Feruz - Royal Excel Mouscron, Michael Hector - Eintracht Frankfurt, Jordan Houghton - Doncaster (until January), Tomas Kalas - Fulham, Kenedy - Watford, Alex Kiwomya - Crewe (until January), Matt Miazga - Vitesse Arnhem, Charly Musonda - Real Betis, Nathan - Vitesse Arnhem, Kenneth Omeruo - Alanyaspor, Kasey Palmer - Huddersfield, Danilo Pantic - Excelsior, Mario Pasalic - AC Milan, Lucas Piazon - Fulham (until January), Loic Remy - Crystal Palace, Jhoao Rodriguez - Independiente Sante Fe, Bertrand Traore - Ajax, Wallace - Gremio.

Seen it before bud, the difference with ours though (apart from about a total of 3 players) is that only 3(?) on their list have ever had the intention of being included in their first team squad. There is a problem though as they have seemed to buy, loan and sell youngsters around the world in a weird kind of football farming manner for years for the ruse of a couple quid.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Chelsea just loaned out Cuadrado for three years, yes you read that right, 3 years.

Liverpool just let Balotelli go for nothing.

At least Utd were smart with Pogba & DiMaria though & have excelled themselves in dealing with Schweinstieger.

 

[BlueTG]

Perhaps you have a few examples of Utd Liverpool & Chelsea moving on unwanted big signings for decent money.

Or would selling Bony Mangala Hart & Nasri for fuck all rather than loaning them out, be seen as good business ?

Maybe we could start with Cudrado.

Luiz, Mata, Felipe Luis, Cech, Salah, Ramires, Bertrand, Schlurre, Welbeck, McNair, Evans, Even Di Maria who did fuck all for a year went for £10m less. If we'd have done that with Bony that'd have been good bloody business for us. And most of those are bloody average players, some went for 10s of millions.

If the players have a year out then sell for good figures and we recoup a bit of money then fair enough, but let's face it we get our pants pulled down in the selling market a lot.

 

[citymad]

Perhaps you have a few examples of Utd Liverpool & Chelsea moving on unwanted big signings for decent money.

Or would selling Bony Mangala Hart & Nasri for fuck all rather than loaning them out, be seen as good business ?

Maybe we could start with Cudrado.

Chelsea got rid of Luiz., Mata, Schurrle, De Bruyne, Essien, Bertrand and lukaku all for profit. The Luiz and Mata deals were amazing.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Luiz, Mata, Felipe Luis, Cech, Salah, Ramires, Bertrand, Schlurre, Welbeck, McNair, Evans, Even Di Maria who did fuck all for a year went for £10m less. If we'd have done that with Bony that'd have been good bloody business for us. And most of those are bloody average players, some went for 10s of millions.

If the players have a year out then sell for good figures and we recoup a bit of money then fair enough, but let's face it we get our pants pulled down in the selling market a lot.

If you think losing 10 mil on DiMaria in a season is good business, a world star from Real Madrid, then we don't have much to worry about by comparison.

Most of that group are players who were in demand at other clubs not players who were being binned off. Utd signed one. Chelsea have just signed one back.

We have sold on lesser rated players from our club for decent money if you are making like for like comparisons.

 

[schfc6]

Chelsea just loaned out Cuadrado for three years, yes you read that right, 3 years.

Liverpool just let Balotelli go for nothing.

I read that the Cuadrado deal is the typical deal with Italian clubs, it is strictly a loan but after X amount of games it's a compulsory fee, around £20 million I believe. A deal similar to the Dzeko one.

Would you have had a pop at Balotelli on a free? Under different circumstances I'd have considered it. He's got a good season in him somewhere.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Chelsea got rid of Luiz., Mata, Schurrle, De Bruyne, Essien, Bertrand and lukaku all for profit. The Luiz and Mata deals were amazing.

They've just paid 70% of the Luiz money back. How the fuck does that make him a surplus player ?

DeBruyne ? Good business?

Does my head in how all these cunts can waste money hand over fist in & out & our club gets shit for transfers in & out.

 

[Phil1]

It's hard to have a go at the media writing stories when so many of our own supporters are quick to put the boot in.

 

[Rolee]

I read that the Cuadrado deal is the typical deal with Italian clubs, it is strictly a loan but after X amount of games it's a compulsory fee, around £20 million I believe. A deal similar to the Dzeko one.

Would you have had a pop at Balotelli on a free? Under different circumstances I'd have considered it. He's got a good season in him somewhere.

As much as I love the crazy bastard I wouldn't want him anywhere near our squad now.

 

[dario2739]

Chelsea got rid of Luiz., Mata, Schurrle, De Bruyne, Essien, Bertrand and lukaku all for profit. The Luiz and Mata deals were FUCKING SUSPICIOUS.

Edited that for you fella ; ) ...well the Luiz one certainly!

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

The issue isn't that they are being loaned out this summer. As you say with their wages being so high it makes sense to pay a portion of their wages and let them play elsewhere.

The issue is the fact they are on such high wages in the first place. Was there really any need to quadruple Bony's wages to get him to leave Swansea? If he had any ambition he'd come and play for us on the same wages he was on at Swansea.

Perhaps that's not realistic, he'd expect a bump in salary. Ok no problem, but perhaps the bump shouldn't be so great. The likes of Bony and Mangala should be well payed, but not so well paid that the likes of Stoke and Valencia can't afford to match the salary.

It shouldn't be so great and I agree. It has been like this for years though. We have basically offloaded a team full of £20m plus players since 2008 for nothing. In fact it has probably cost us when you take wages into account. We have been penalised by having to buy quickly and pay over the odds and have built a reputation as being a bit of a soft touch clearly. Agents must have loved us.

I am expecting that to change now though. Its all about reputation in this industry hence the reason why players still spout bullshit about playing for the rags. We are still not seen by a lot of players in the same bracket as them, Barca, Madrid, Bayern. We are getting there but not there yet. It is why they have gone gung ho for Mourinho and are breaking world record transfer fees as they know their stock will diminish the longer they stay out of the top 4. Its why Liverpool are struggling to attract the very best because they are seen as a selling club and their reputation has diminished over the years.

However Pep is seen as one of the top managers in the world and has a reputation that means players want to come to us to work with him, not just to sit on the gravy train like Bony. He will pay for himself over his years here with what he can attract to the club.

It is going to take a few years for this to take effect.

 

[Stato]

No you can't expect them to take a pay cut but then if they want to play first team football again then they have to alter their wage expectations.

It isn't like they are some poor lass at Tesco being forced to work in the local corner shop back at minimum wage, this you can't expect the player to drop his wage argument is a pile of shit, it isn't normal working life, you get payed what people are willing to pay you or you don't play football anymore or that is the way it should work out, it used to be like that, no wonder the common man is falling out of love with football.

from our point of view though we can either pay their full wage and they sit out of the team and watch there price drop or they go out and play and we only pay some of the wages and they might do well and hold there value.
from their point of stay and not play, go and play.
if no one wants to buy them then we have to make do.
makes sense that they go out on loan.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

When you move to a new job, you tend to expect to be paid comparable to those present. Agents and the players know this. Wages are high already, so new signings come in on high wages. It's not something likely to stop.

Some are on prohibitive wages for their market value - Toure is the obvious one to me - so they can't be sold for much. Hence Nani going for not much, van Persie going for 5M and Balotelli for nothing, allowing the signing club to pay them highish wages or a big signing fee.

Hart and Mangala might have a future yet; Nasri doesn't unless Silva breaks and Bony doesn't fit Guardiola's style at all. Also as he's only had a short time to look at them, it would be difficult to have arranged sales. Also, if Silva or KdB had got injured last week, we'd have needed Nasri.

There may also be a bookkeeping exercise in not wanting to sell them, but I'm not sure of that.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

from our point of view though we can either pay their full wage and they sit out of the team and watch there price drop or they go out and play and we only pay some of the wages and they might do well and hold there value.
from their point of stay and not play, go and play.
if no one wants to buy them then we have to make do.
makes sense that they go out on loan.

It does, but the hack#s point was "we should have sold them", ignoring that it was not really a possibility. See Schweinsteiger for more information!

 

[TCIB]

Well the reporter obviously knows his stuff very very well i mean it is so obvious now right, i bet our suits are crying in their cornflakes at this glaring opportunity missed. We should have hired him maybe, sand to an Arab, ice to an Inuit etc etc, can't be arsed reading it as it sounds like some half thought out rant from an opposing teams forum.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The issue isn't that they are being loaned out this summer. As you say with their wages being so high it makes sense to pay a portion of their wages and let them play elsewhere.

The issue is the fact they are on such high wages in the first place. Was there really any need to quadruple Bony's wages to get him to leave Swansea? If he had any ambition he'd come and play for us on the same wages he was on at Swansea.

Perhaps that's not realistic, he'd expect a bump in salary. Ok no problem, but perhaps the bump shouldn't be so great. The likes of Bony and Mangala should be well payed, but not so well paid that the likes of Stoke and Valencia can't afford to match the salary.

I absolutely agree with you. The only proviso is that we really don't know how their remuneration packages are structured. I know from a agent contact I have that there's all sorts of clauses in those contracts.

Basic wage, appearance bonuses, win bonuses, goal bonuses (or maybe clean sheets for a goalkeeper/defender), team achievement bonuses, automatic increases over the life of the contract, loyalty bonuses, image rights, share of commercial revenue, etc.

So when we talk of someone being on £100k a week, that might be their basic, their estimated wage if targets are achieved as anticipated or their maximum possible remuneration.

I believe we have a structure that starts from a relatively low basic and is heavily loaded based on individual and team performance. I've heard a maximum basic salary of £70k mentioned but even that feels too much for me. But it's a marketplace so unless there's an agreement about wages between the clubs then the players will chase the best package.

I was talking to an American journalist about this last night and we contrasted the NFL and the PL. While there's still a disparity between NFL clubs (the top earning club's revenue will be about double the lowest earning club's) a lot of revenue is shared and there are salary caps in place. Whereas the history of football finance in this country has shown that the authorities have bent over backwards to accommodate the demands of the biggest clubs in order to increase the disparity in incomes. So in the PL, the ratio is 5 times between the highest & lowest earning clubs.

So if it were up to me, I'd implement a PL-wide system that mandated a maximum basic of say £40k a week, which is affordable by all clubs. So if you're not playing for City, that's all you get and means you could go to Stoke and earn no less than that.

 

[Gabriel]

...will soon be surpassed.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I absolutely agree with you. The only proviso is that we really don't know how their remuneration packages are structured. I know from a agent contact I have that there's all sorts of clauses in those contracts.

Basic wage, appearance bonuses, win bonuses, goal bonuses (or maybe clean sheets for a goalkeeper/defender), team achievement bonuses, automatic increases over the life of the contract, loyalty bonuses, image rights, share of commercial revenue, etc.

So when we talk of someone being on £100k a week, that might be their basic, their estimated wage if targets are achieved as anticipated or their maximum possible remuneration.

I believe we have a structure that starts from a relatively low basic and is heavily loaded based on individual and team performance. I've heard a maximum basic salary of £70k mentioned but even that feels too much for me. But it's a marketplace so unless there's an agreement about wages between the clubs then the players will chase the best package.

I was talking to an American journalist about this last night and we contrasted the NFL and the PL. While there's still a disparity between NFL clubs (the top earning club's revenue will be about double the lowest earning club's) a lot of revenue is shared and there are salary caps in place. Whereas the history of football finance in this country has shown that the authorities have bent over backwards to accommodate the demands of the biggest clubs in order to increase the disparity in incomes. So in the PL, the ratio is 5 times between the highest & lowest earning clubs.

So if it were up to me, I'd implement a PL-wide system that mandated a maximum basic of say £40k a week, which is affordable by all clubs. So if you're not playing for City, that's all you get and means you could go to Stoke and earn no less than that.

I absolutely agree with you that something needs to be done to regulate footballers wages. It is completely out of control. All of the new TV money could go in to improving grass roots facilities, coaching, reducing ticket prices for the average fan. The billions pouring in to the game could be put to great use, imagine the good that could be done with it. But instead it just leads to an inflation in the wages paid to average players. How much Gucci luggage does Wilfried Bony really need? How many camoflage Bentley's is enough?

But it's an arms race now. If the Shite can pay Rooney £300k a week, Aguero's agent is going to want his client to be on the same. Mangala's agent knows what we're paying Kompany, he knows what Barca are paying Pique, so he's going to demand similar for his client. And I think therein lies the problem - if you only regulate the PL, we're going to lose the talent to Spain, Germany and Italy.

It's like the greatest bargaining trick the bankers have ever pulled - "Well if you limit our bonuses, all the talent will just move to New York or Hong Kong". Oh will it? So you're going to give up your membership at Soho House, take your kids out of Eton, tell your Mrs she's got to leave her horses and family and move them half the way around the world because you want to earn £20m instead of a measly £15m? But that's another subject.

But with footballers, like banking, if all of the major players had to live by the same rules - if there was an individual or a squad limit on wages for every club in Europe then it could work. You'd get your Asamoah Gyan's who would go and play in China or the Middle East, but how many of the very top players would actually leave Europe to earn more money in Asia? They might threaten it, just like the bankers, but footballers are not solely motivated by money, not the top ones anyway. They want to test themselves against the best, in the best leagues. So it would take a Europe-wide agreement for me.

But back on City, I agree with an earlier poster. In the Garry Cook era we had to pay over the odds to get the talent to come. We are now an established top club. We are every bit as appealing as any other club, probably bar the two Spanish giants. Players should be falling over themselves to play for us. The top players like Aguero deserve the top money in line with their contemporaries. But the squad players with potential who are taking a huge step up should be falling over themselves to play for City. We don't need to be paying over the odds on wages anymore.