The Title Race - 2023/24

[bluenova]

Suspect he’ll be more successful from an honours perspective but he won’t reach the level of KDB

I agree with the first part.

Aged 22, KdB started the season at Chelsea, but didn't break through and ended it at Wolfsburg.

Aged 22, Foden started the season at City and ended it as a treble winner.

 

[Dodge]

I'd rather have the jeopardy of a tight title run in than a canter to the line with 5 games to play. That's when us fans will make the difference, as we always have.

Could you imagine the atmosphere thread if it's not prime Dortmund/Boca/River Plate in the East Stand, having won the title with a month to spare?

Jeez, Pep would be having us lined up and shot at dawn.

 

[uwerosler28]

Just glad I secured a ticket for the last home game against West ham

 

[Axel Freed]

TBF Foden has never been given a real chance to be our 10, even with KDB out.

I think we all thought it was going to be this season, but Alvarez is playing there every game, despite playing poorly for well over a month now. I just don't understand Pep's thinking in putting one of our most talented players on the wing, thus cutting off an entire half of the field for him to use, even if he is inverting at times.

Even with England this past international break, when he was allowed to float and go pick up the ball all over the park, he was electric and felt he was going to do something whenever he touched the ball. I don't think he has the physicality to beat fullbacks consistently but rather his best ability is his spatial awareness and knowing how to receive the ball in half-spaces and attack.

Andy Morrisson talks about Pep dividing the pitch into zones and how it is absolutely anathema to Pep to lose the ball in the zone in the middle third of the pitch 20 or 25 yds from goal because turnovers there afford the best opportunity for counter attacking teams to scythe right through us.

It's great to watch Phil pick up the ball on the half turn and run Diego like straight at the heart of defences but he loses it too often in such situations to be able to rely on him in there in games against quality opponents

 

[city2]

Looks like this season is gonna be a very intriguing finish if the top 6 keep dropping points.

 

[Xhavenjoe]

I agree with the first part.

Aged 22, KdB started the season at Chelsea, but didn't break through and ended it at Wolfsburg.

Aged 22, Foden started the season at City and ended it as a treble winner.

Kovacic has 4 champions league winners medals, having played a total of 7 minutes in a final.
Foden may end up with more medals but will have to continue to improve to reach KDB level. He may well do it.

 

[Kippax Street 1880]

Sadly Foden will never reach anywhere near the levels of KDB

While you may be right, Phil is a better player than Kev was at the same age.

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

I really don’t think he has been, 3 assists and 3 goals all season and hasn’t been as influential as expected, perhaps 1 MOTM performance?

Oh dear.

He has been the best and most consistent player of the season so far. In my opinion that is.

But it is not just my opinion. It is substantiated by a large number of the wise and knowledgeable posters on this great forum who vote in droves for MOTM each game.

Phil leads the way. MOTM 6 times. Yes, 6 times and he’s placed well a couple of times. That’s from 11 PL starts and 3 CL starts.

No other player gets close.

 

[TrentGrisham]

It's great to watch Phil pick up the ball on the half turn and run Diego like straight at the heart of defences but he loses it too often in such situations to be able to rely on him in there in games against quality opponents

This is almost completely contradicted by the fact that Pep is willing to play others centrally who are far looser on the ball than Phil.

Between last season and now and from a very similar sample size of minutes- Foden is 'dispossessed' 1.31 times per 90 compared to Alvarez's 1.22. So while more, it's hardly anything negligible. During that same time, Phil has more goal-creating actions(.63 vs .46), and shot-creating actions(4.7 vs 3.54) per 90. The real kicker is despite Alvarez being well-known for his work rate off of the ball(which I'm not saying isn't valid), Phil has more tackles + interceptions per 90 as well.

I know it's unpopular but you can't convince me that Phil isn't treated somewhat differently by Pep than others who were bought, and likely can't get away with more than an academy lad who's a fan and more unlikely to kick up a fuss.

You'd think Phil had earned the opportunity to really make that spot that Alvarez seemingly walked into his own given how long he's sucked it up on the wing for the betterment of the team. I just hope the next manager sees things differently. If Phil hasn't developed that 'la pausa' that Pep loves to go on about him not having by now, then either Pep isn't doing a good job of coaching it into him, or he's not ever going to acquire it under him.

 

[bluenova]

Kovacic has 4 champions league winners medals, having played a total of 7 minutes in a final.
Foden may end up with more medals but will have to continue to improve to reach KDB level. He may well do it.

No comparison with Kovacic - at Phil's age he'd played 36 minutes of Champions League knockout football. He's a very good player, but obviously his medal tally is mostly from being a squad player when Real Madrid dominated the CL.

Foden has played 150 minutes in two finals already, plus started fourteen CL knockout matches, including four semi-finals.

Clearly there are plenty of good young players who don't go on to be one of the World's best, and if Phil reaches Kev's levels that will be amazing, but it's not like he's just potential. As well as all those appearances in what has probably been the best team in World football over the last few years, he's also delivered - averaging 25 goals and assists a season since he turned 20.

There are very few players his age who have anything like his track record. He might not always dominate matches (although he's gone through periods where he's regularly our best player), or be a 8 out of 10 like Bernardo or Gundo every week, but then Bernardo wasn't anything like as dominant as he is now, when he was 23.

 

[bluenova]

This is almost completely contradicted by the fact that Pep is willing to play others centrally who are far looser on the ball than Phil.

Between last season and now and from a very similar sample size of minutes- Foden is 'dispossessed' 1.31 times per 90 compared to Alvarez's 1.22. So while more, it's hardly anything negligible. During that same time, Phil has more goal-creating actions(.63 vs .46), and shot-creating actions(4.7 vs 3.54) per 90. The real kicker is despite Alvarez being well-known for his work rate off of the ball(which I'm not saying isn't valid), Phil has more tackles + interceptions per 90 as well.

I know it's unpopular but you can't convince me that Phil isn't treated somewhat differently by Pep than others who were bought, and likely can't get away with more than an academy lad who's a fan and more unlikely to kick up a fuss.

You'd think Phil had earned the opportunity to really make that spot that Alvarez seemingly walked into his own given how long he's sucked it up on the wing for the betterment of the team. I just hope the next manager sees things differently. If Phil hasn't developed that 'la pausa' that Pep loves to go on about him not having by now, then either Pep isn't doing a good job of coaching it into him, or he's not ever going to acquire it under him.

How many 23 year old's have "la pausa"?

Gundogan was three years older when he joined City, and it took him a while to really start pulling the strings. David Silva was a year older then Phil is now when he joined us. Grealish can slow a game down, but he's also 5 years older than Phil. Bernardo was around Foden's age when he joined City, but it's only been the last 2-3 years that he's really come to dominate games with his presence.

 

[Xhavenjoe]

No comparison with Kovacic - at Phil's age he'd played 36 minutes of Champions League knockout football. He's a very good player, but obviously his medal tally is mostly from being a squad player when Real Madrid dominated the CL.

Not disagreeing with you but there are a lot of players who are not necessary great footballers but have won a plethora of medals/ trophies for just being members of a winning team
2 that spring to mind are John O Shea and Christian Karembeu. Julian Alvarez is multi decorated but not necessarily a nailed on starter for us.
Foden will definitely end up with more silverware than DeBruyne by the end of his career.
I still think that Foden won't end up as good a player as DeBruyne
I hope I am wrong.

 

[TrentGrisham]

How many 23 year old's have "la pausa"?

Gundogan was three years older when he joined City, and it took him a while to really start pulling the strings. David Silva was a year older then Phil is now when he joined us. Grealish can slow a game down, but he's also 5 years older than Phil. Bernardo was around Foden's age when he joined City, but it's only been the last 2-3 years that he's really come to dominate games with his presence.

Fair but IMO he does have it. I feel like this notion that he turns and attacks every time someone passes him the ball in the midfield is complete crap.

 

[bluenova]

Not disagreeing with you but there are a lot of players who are not necessary great footballers but have won a plethora of medals/ trophies for just being members of a winning team
2 that spring to mind are John O Shea and Christian Karembeu. Julian Alvarez is multi decorated but not necessarily a nailed on starter for us.
Foden will definitely end up with more silverware than DeBruyne by the end of his career.
I still think that Foden won't end up as good a player as DeBruyne
I hope I am wrong.

He could not be as good as De Bruyne, and still be one of the top five in the World for half a decade :)

Foden isn't collecting medals by being a member of a winning team, he's been a key part of it despite being younger than most of the players around him.

 

[wolviedinho]

See Arsenal have now won back to back titles again in November. How can we complete?

 

[chesterbells]

See Arsenal have now won back to back titles again in November. How can we complete?

Seems to be if you win by scoring at the end of the game you get more points.

 

[Axel Freed]

This is almost completely contradicted by the fact that Pep is willing to play others centrally who are far looser on the ball than Phil.

Between last season and now and from a very similar sample size of minutes- Foden is 'dispossessed' 1.31 times per 90 compared to Alvarez's 1.22. So while more, it's hardly anything negligible. During that same time, Phil has more goal-creating actions(.63 vs .46), and shot-creating actions(4.7 vs 3.54) per 90. The real kicker is despite Alvarez being well-known for his work rate off of the ball(which I'm not saying isn't valid), Phil has more tackles + interceptions per 90 as well.

I know it's unpopular but you can't convince me that Phil isn't treated somewhat differently by Pep than others who were bought, and likely can't get away with more than an academy lad who's a fan and more unlikely to kick up a fuss.

You'd think Phil had earned the opportunity to really make that spot that Alvarez seemingly walked into his own given how long he's sucked it up on the wing for the betterment of the team. I just hope the next manager sees things differently. If Phil hasn't developed that 'la pausa' that Pep loves to go on about him not having by now, then either Pep isn't doing a good job of coaching it into him, or he's not ever going to acquire it under him.

I don’t understand. You say others are looser on the ball than Phil and then you quote a stat showing he gets dispossessed more often than them.

I certainly don’t believe that Pep treats Phil any differently than big money signings. The fact is that Pep doesn’t have to tread on eggshells with anyone. If a player “kicks up a fuss” he’s gone.

 

[Coatigan]

I didn't expect a win at Chelsea, wasn't sure about Liverpool either. I don't expect a winning run later in the season either. This season many teams are taking points off each other. No team is likely to win 8-10 games in a row. Spurs have many problems with injuries, they'll do well to make the top 4.

I think if the two fixtures were reversed either side of the internationals, i.e we played Liverpool home before the break and Chelsea away after it, we would have won both games. Momentum has always been a key thing for us. No internationals now for a while so let's hopw we build some.

 

[alexmcity]

I'd be more worried if we had a fantastic start to the season and were trashing teams. For it's not always a good sign if things are perfect. We can't be in top form over the whole season anyway, especially after last season. Difficulties and frustrations keep us grounded and hungry for success. Feel optimistic about the last 3 months of the season. Hopefully, we won’t suffer many injuries.

 

[supercity88]

Beat Spurs and Villa and it will have been an excellent start to the season. We've got plenty of injuries. So many in fact that we only had Bobb as an attacking option off the bench. Far from ideal.

In terms of "hardest start to the season" I think we'll be in an excellent position after the next 2 to take stock of where we are. We'll have played Newcastle, Liverpool and Spurs at home and been to Arsenal, Chelsea, Rags and Villa.

It may be we have to take points from Spurs and Liverpool away this year - no idea when we last won at both! 2003?!

From games against the rags, spuds, dippers, tarquins and barcodes which are always a good measure of a team's title credentials we're 8pts/15 - this is the same as Arsenal but they've played three at home. The dippers have only played 4 so far and are on 5pts/12 although all have been away from home.