The two striker trouble...

FanchesterCity said:
I think going forwards, we'd be ok like that, it's facing any half decent team and we're on the back foot where the problems arise. I think KdB can do a decent DM job (even though he's primarily AM). I think Fernandinho is the opposite... he can be a decent AM, but primarily DM. So that's two we're ok with. I think Yaya and Fernando become the weak links. I think Yaya is just past it, and I don't think Fernando is good enough. If we could replace those two with quality players who can do both AM and DM well, we're ok.

But... there's some BIG names missing from that... No Silva, Navas, Nasri or Sterling.

If we want a solid midfield, some of those players are going to have to go, or we're going to end up with two distinct setups... the attacking setup and the defensive one. You could argue we have that now, but the defensive setup is still compromised by too many flair players and lack of proper DM's. We sometimes will say 'he's gone quite defensive' - because he's got Delph, or Fernando in with Yaya and Fernandinho, but in truth it's only a notional defensive setup... only one of those has much talent to operate in a truly defensive manner (Fernandinho).
Click to expand...
You think problems would arise facing decent opposition with Fernando behind Yaya & Fernandinho? I'd argue that is simply our strongest defensive midfield available (Delph for Yaya perhaps); I believe it was the Sevilla away match (?) where we utilised this to great effect.

Yes but those players minus Navas were injured yesterday, my suggestion was a replacement option on yesterdays starting 11 considering the players who were fit - and Navas only works when he has space, something he doesn't have when we play as slowly as yesterday with only 1 creative player on the pitch.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting but it sounds like you only want midfielders who play both a defensive & attacking role to a reasonable degree? Would have to disagree with that notion personally, would rather have experts in their natural positions rather than all rounders.
 
miketork said:
You think problems would arise facing decent opposition with Fernando behind Yaya & Fernandinho? I'd argue that is simply our strongest defensive midfield available (Delph for Yaya perhaps); I believe it was the Sevilla away match (?) where we utilised this to great effect.

Yes but those players minus Navas were injured yesterday, my suggestion was a replacement option on yesterdays starting 11 considering the players who were fit - and Navas only works when he has space, something he doesn't have when we play as slowly as yesterday with only 1 creative player on the pitch.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting but it sounds like you only want midfielders who play both a defensive & attacking role to a reasonable degree? Would have to disagree with that notion personally, would rather have experts in their natural positions rather than all rounders.
Click to expand...

I think when we've faced quality opposition, our midfield has been found wanting yes. I think ultimately I'm envisioning a 'hard' midfield, but with the ability to get forward with brains! I can't complain too much about out forward line, but I think it's generally strong because we sacrifice a lot in midfield. I think Fernandinho's good enough (for now) in that sort of role, and Yaya was more than good enough in his pomp, but those days are gone. Delph and Fernando (in my opinion) just aren't good enough for a top European team (which is what we're aspiring to be). I think we need a minimum of three seriously formidable midfielders to compete with the very best teams, and right now, we have one. Ideally, I'd have four in midfield with two of them being capable of going forward... I guess I'm asking for Lampard / Ballack or Gerrard / Alonso type pairing - two great midfielders with brains and who can get forward when necessary.

I'd go for something like this:

------------------hart-------------------
zab---otamendi---mangala---clichy
------xxx---------------------yyy------
------------Dino-------zzz-------------
------------------KdB------------------
----------------Aguero----------------


I could see a case for KdB playing as zzz, and then have Silva or Nasri behind Aguero. But every time I think 'there's not enough attack' there and try to fit in another AM or striker (from the players we currently have), I have to weaken the midfield.
I just can't get past us having a very poor midfield (in terms of defensive attributes), and to get a very strong one, we have to have less lightweight flair players (lightweight in terms of defensive capability).
KdB can probably offer attacking flair AND some midfield protection, but Silva, Navas, Nasri and Sterling can't. The only way I can cram any of those into the team is either push KdB further back into midfield, or sacrifice a DM entirely. Leaving just three in midfield. If they were three world class midfielders, I could accept it, but 3 of the ones we currently have won't cut the mustard.

In either of those scenarios, I'm still stuck with one striker.

The final option would be three at the back...


------------------hart----------------------!--------------------hart--------------------
zab---------otamendi-------mangala---!---zab---------otamendi-------mangala
----- DM---------------------DM-----------!--------DM---------------------DM------
------------Dino-------AM-----------------!---------------Dino-------AM-------------
--------Silva--------------KdB-------------!--------------------KdB--------------------
----------------Aguero---------------------!------------Muller-------Aguero---------
 
It never lasted long enough to really know if it was a match made in heaven, or just a purple patch that would have faded anyway.
 
Tricky_Trev said:
Essentially, Txiki has fucked up, leaving us with a squad that is unbalanced and not fit for purpose. There are plenty of problems with Pellegrini and with certain players, but ultimately, not enough thought has gone into attempting to create a flexible squad. When there is not a single formation that perfectly suits the players on our books, fingers need to be pointed at those that make the signings.
Click to expand...

I don't think he has left us with a squad not fit for purpose. The issue here is that Txiki and Soriano were targeting Pep, so why would they want to allow Pellergrini to have input on rebuilding the squad - they wouldn't

What they did allow was for Pellers to choose a back-up striker because of the injuries to Sergio, and he chose Bony. It hasn't worked out and he has been out of his depth since about 3-4 games in since joining. Because we spent £28m or so on him, we now need to recoup as much as possible and that probably does mean him being chosen ahead of Kelechi which is criminal in my opinion
 
City needs another striker. not necessarily play two upfront, but more importantly to rotate with Aguero.
Nacho have plenty of time to learn from two great striker. he also flexible, can play across attacking mid.
for AM we have no problem, KDB and Nasri can always rotate and can score.

the problem is wide player. we lack of winger and inside forward.
just only have Navas and Sterling. not much option.
Nasri and Silva are not pacey, Dinho and Delph are no winger.
if we want to play midfield diamond, without winger, then wing back is needed to cover for wide area.
another problem that all 4 fullback is in their 30s. great fullback some years ago, but now their legs are gone.
will be decent in Spain or Italy, but no way they can play in high pace English games without winter break and heavy rotation.

at least 1 striker, 2 winger/inside forward, 2 fullback and Gundogan.
perhaps CB too. i expect Vinny will carry his injury next season due to lack of long break because of his national duty in Euro.
Ota, Mangler, Denayer and another young defender (Stones or Laporte) should be better option for Pep.
 
Just in regards to some of the posters discussing CM's, you can bet your bottom dollar that Guardiola is going to make his biggest changes there. If we do a like for like comparison of our squad with Bayern's, we fare well in all areas except Central Midfield, which is arguably Pep's most important position. Taking a look:

Us:

Fernando
Delph
Fernandinho
Y Toure

Bayern:

Thiago (signed by Pep)
Martinez
Alonso (signed by Pep)
Vidal (signed by Pep)

That's an enormous gulf in quality - arguably only Fernandinho could replace any of them as Yaya is in decline. No chance Pep will stand for that.

Gundogan is a good start, but we'll need one more high quality player there to satisy him. We need a mix of different qualities as well, someone who's larger and more physical as well to replace Yaya.

Wouldn't be surprised if Nasri gets time there, either.

Delph we probably will/should keep, as a #5 in the order.
 
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