Theresa May

[Chippy_boy]

Absolute horse shit.

Somewhat off-topic mate, but knowing you're a bit into science, you might be interested to know that very possibly - probably even - it isn't.

There's strong evidence to suggest that the past, present and future are just places in on a space-time map which already exist and that our concept of "present" and the sense that time "flows" is merely an illusion. What is certainly true (and not in debate) is that there is no universal concept of "now" upon which everyone in the universe agrees, and that events in someone else's future could already have happened in your past.

 

[CityStu]

Somewhat off-topic mate, but knowing you're a bit into science, you might be interested to know that very possibly - probably even - it isn't.

There's strong evidence to suggest that the past, present and future are just places in on a space-time map which already exist and that our concept of "present" and the sense that time "flows" is merely an illusion. What is certainly true (and not in debate) is that there is no universal concept of "now" upon which everyone in the universe agrees, and that events in someone else's future could already have happened in your past.

It's more the nature vs. nurture idea. Saying that what will be will be is to say it's 100% nature how you end up. In reality, nurturing choices have a huge, proven effect, and are much more likely to be chaotic rather than pre-defined.

 

[CityStu]

Nurture is nature.

I get the idea that people will tend to act in the same way, but you can't predict interactions nearly as well.

 

[Fame Monster]

I get the idea that people will tend to act in the same way, but you can't predict interactions nearly as well.

Just because it's not easy to predict interactions doesn't mean they aren't predictable.

 

[SWP's back]

How do we make our decisions then? God? The Id? The self? The superego? All of which have as much supporting evidence as Father Christmas or dragons? I think I’ll side with the world of science on this mate.

Let me know when you do and we’ll talk as you’re not remotely on the side of science at the minute.

 

[CityStu]

Just because it's not easy to predict interactions doesn't mean they aren't predictable.

They're predictable in a sense that a road might have 2 car accidents per year. They aren't predictable in the way that you couldn't say that a husband and wife would get killed in a car accident on that road, causing their kids to go to a poor care home, begin to under-perform at school and end up without qualifications and unemployed.

 

[SWP's back]

Somewhat off-topic mate, but knowing you're a bit into science, you might be interested to know that very possibly - probably even - it isn't.

There's strong evidence to suggest that the past, present and future are just places in on a space-time map which already exist and that our concept of "present" and the sense that time "flows" is merely an illusion. What is certainly true (and not in debate) is that there is no universal concept of "now" upon which everyone in the universe agrees, and that events in someone else's future could already have happened in your past.

I’m not a fatalist. I don’t believe we are stuck as unwitting characters in a movie that’s already been written. To believe that is to believe that no decisions we take are important. There’s no need to debate politics or football as what will be will be and that we can’t effect change. To believe that is to believe there’s no good and no evil, no one is at fault for their actions and no one should be credited for their good.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I’m not a fatalist. I don’t believe we are stuck as unwitting characters in a movie that’s already been written. To believe that is to believe that no decisions we take are important. There’s no need to debate politics or football as what will be will be and that we can’t effect change. To believe that is to believe there’s no good and no evil, no one is at fault for their actions and no one should be credited for their good.

This is a philosophical argument, but even if the future is pre-ordained (as I happen to believe it is, btw) that is not incompatible with the concept of free will. You're free to type whatever you want next. But in the great tapestry of history, when we look back on this event in 10 days time, what you type next was always going to be what you type next. Henry ViiI only ever had 6 wives and looking back that's it - there's only 1 copy of our history. But did he feel at the time he had no free will? No.

 

[Fame Monster]

They're predictable in a sense that a road might have 2 car accidents per year. They aren't predictable in the way that you couldn't say that a husband and wife would get killed in a car accident on that road, causing their kids to go to a poor care home, begin to under-perform at school and end up without qualifications and unemployed.

I strongly disagree. Everything is explicable by the laws of the Universe. If you wanna believe that there’s some kind of god in the machine then that’s pride fucking with you (to quote Pulp Fiction). Also, my point isn’t to say fuck pride we should all go on the dole, science is descriptive not prescriptive.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I strongly disagree. Everything is explicable by the laws of the Universe.

You have heard of chaos theory, right? And quantum mechanics? And Heisenberg etc? And that if you could *perfectly* and I mean perfectly mathematically model a die, it's size, shape, position and velocity (which is impossible since we can never know precisely both position and momentum). And perfectly model the baise of the gaming table and every hair and exactly how the die will land, then STILL we could not mathematically be able to determine whether it will come up with a 1 or a 6, because the universe doesn't work in such a predictable way.

Is the behaviour explicable, as in we understand what's going on? Sure it is. Is it *predictable*? No, it isn't.

This is not to say that future events may not be inevitable if the whole of space-time exists already. But saying that does not mean the future is predictable from any particular point in time. (more correctly, in space-time).