Ticket prices are now a problem at City

[Stephenhakin]

Sorry inconsequential? How can that be? Bit of a statto like that and it was the only area we were really behind the rags. Commercially we were 10m down, Boradcasting 19m down yet matchday was 84m down.....so unless I am missing something it is the area City should be attacking which they obviously are in my opinion.

Sorry. What I meant ( and didn't say due to laziness ) is that the cost of tickets in the non corporate bits makes little difference to our overall turnover vs commercial deals and TV money.

The law of diminishing returns applies in terms of revenue gained against alienating our core support imo.

Exactly. The revenue from 45,000 non-premium tickets is probably around £25m per season. The revenue from the 2,000 or so premium tickets is probably around £20m. Adding another 2,000 premium places as part of the ground extension would bring in around another £15m probably whereas 10,000 ordinary seats would maybe bring in around £5m.

Squeezing the likes of us ordinary fans has little commercial logic as the relatively insignificant increase in revenue it brings in is clearly beginning to alienate many of the core support. We currently don't have the size of supporter base where we can afford to do that.

So this has been basically my point. If it has little or no effect on revenue then why do it at all for the sake million? Maybe people are underestimating how much is generated by the little man.

 

[FanchesterCity]

'Modern football has gone to the dogs' was the war cry when Forest signed Trevor Francis for 1m.

I'm now spouting the same crap my elders spouted at me, about music, football, tv and kids of today.

Football's changing. I like some changes, I don't like others.
Plus c'est change.

 

[squirtyflower]

'Modern football has gone to the dogs' was the war cry when Forest signed Trevor Francis for 1m.

I'm now spouting the same crap my elders spouted at me, about music, football, tv and kids of today.

Football's changing. I like some changes, I don't like others.
Plus c'est change.

Welcome to old age and conservatism, with very much a small 'c'

 

[FanchesterCity]

Sorry. What I meant ( and didn't say due to laziness ) is that the cost of tickets in the non corporate bits makes little difference to our overall turnover vs commercial deals and TV money.

The law of diminishing returns applies in terms of revenue gained against alienating our core support imo.

Exactly. The revenue from 45,000 non-premium tickets is probably around £25m per season. The revenue from the 2,000 or so premium tickets is probably around £20m. Adding another 2,000 premium places as part of the ground extension would bring in around another £15m probably whereas 10,000 ordinary seats would maybe bring in around £5m.

Squeezing the likes of us ordinary fans has little commercial logic as the relatively insignificant increase in revenue it brings in is clearly beginning to alienate many of the core support. We currently don't have the size of supporter base where we can afford to do that.

So this has been basically my point. If it has little or no effect on revenue then why do it at all for the sake million? Maybe people are underestimating how much is generated by the little man.

Core supports bring in a fairly stable revenue per head, but tourist fans bring in more... since they'll spend on merchandise too, and pay more per ticket than ST holder do. Of course, per capita, the bog standard fan is not where the money is at.... corporate is where there's a much greater return.
All of that said the two go hand in hand. Corporates are attracted by 'big events', as there is a lot of kudos in bringing clients to big games, and the bigger the stadium and prestige of the club, the more they'll pay.
Increasing the capacity helps to add to this kudos of a big club, and great atmosphere (we hope). So we minions are still needed to make the corporate proposition an attractive one.

Sadly, this is why United and Liverpool do so well. The kudos of taking clients their is far greater than City (but we're improving!). Increasing our capacity is one way of improving that kudos, providing we can fill the seats and keep the football at the top level too.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I have absoloutely nothing to base it on except maybe wishful thinking, but I get a feeling the club are starting to get it, and going forward they will pass on not needing to worry abaout FFP to the fans. We'll just need to wait and see I suppose.

I'd like to think you're right but my suspicion is that the people running the club seem to be more interested in maximising revenue and if the can do that while only selling 35,000 seats then that won't bother them. I think they're testing the price elasticity of City tickets that's what will determine future price increases, not concern for fans.

It may even suit them to price season ticket holders out, if they think they can get more for their seats on a match by match basis. If you sell 36,000 season tickets at £700 a season, plus 10,000 seats at £50 per game, that brings in £34.7m a season.

If you put season tickets up to £800 but only sell 30,000, that leaves you 16,000 seats to sell per game. Selling those at £50 per game would bring in a total of £39.2m. Even if you sold the individual seats at a small premium to the pro-rata season ticket price in that second example (£45), you would still gross £37.7m.

 

[zandvoort blue]

If you want to reduce the number of people outside the stadium just before kick off then get the Sky match on the TVs on the concourse. People would be in the stadium watching the game instead of the various pubs around the stadium. They wait until the final whistle on the TV game and then wander doown to the ground.
But thereagain that would mean nobody staring at a stage at city square, which has totally lost its appeal to me.
Whilst City are making big steps to improve certain areas they are totall missing out on so many aspects of "the match day experience".

ps.....as for the email "we missed you at City Live"

 

[Stephenhakin]

Exactly. The revenue from 45,000 non-premium tickets is probably around £25m per season. The revenue from the 2,000 or so premium tickets is probably around £20m. Adding another 2,000 premium places as part of the ground extension would bring in around another £15m probably whereas 10,000 ordinary seats would maybe bring in around £5m.

Squeezing the likes of us ordinary fans has little commercial logic as the relatively insignificant increase in revenue it brings in is clearly beginning to alienate many of the core support. We currently don't have the size of supporter base where we can afford to do that.

So this has been basically my point. If it has little or no effect on revenue then why do it at all for the sake million? Maybe people are underestimating how much is generated by the little man.

Core supports bring in a fairly stable revenue per head, but tourist fans bring in more... since they'll spend on merchandise too, and pay more per ticket than ST holder do. Of course, per capita, the bog standard fan is not where the money is at.... corporate is where there's a much greater return.
All of that said the two go hand in hand. Corporates are attracted by 'big events', as there is a lot of kudos in bringing clients to big games, and the bigger the stadium and prestige of the club, the more they'll pay.
Increasing the capacity helps to add to this kudos of a big club, and great atmosphere (we hope). So we minions are still needed to make the corporate proposition an attractive one.

Sadly, this is why United and Liverpool do so well. The kudos of taking clients their is far greater than City (but we're improving!). Increasing our capacity is one way of improving that kudos, providing we can fill the seats and keep the football at the top level too.

Got that and totally understand. Let's hope we can catch up soon so we can keep all fans happy. ( Easier said than done I know)

 

[blueparrot]

I have absoloutely nothing to base it on except maybe wishful thinking, but I get a feeling the club are starting to get it, and going forward they will pass on not needing to worry abaout FFP to the fans. We'll just need to wait and see I suppose.

I'd like to think you're right but my suspicion is that the people running the club seem to be more interested in maximising revenue and if the can do that while only selling 35,000 seats then that won't bother them. I think they're testing the price elasticity of City tickets that's what will determine future price increases, not concern for fans.

It may even suit them to price season ticket holders out, if they think they can get more for their seats on a match by match basis. If you sell 36,000 season tickets at £700 a season, plus 10,000 seats at £50 per game, that brings in £34.7m a season.

If you put season tickets up to £800 but only sell 30,000, that leaves you 16,000 seats to sell per game. Selling those at £50 per game would bring in a total of £39.2m. Even if you sold the individual seats at a small premium to the pro-rata season ticket price in that second example (£45), you would still gross £37.7m.

There may be a large amount of truth in testing the price elasticity, but as this week has shown and the speed that matchday home tickets sell out it's not that great. I know the club are at least aware of that from replies I've had from surveys, whether they act on it is another matter.

The easiest way for them to increase matchday income is, as you say, to increase corporate attendance. I think one of the factors in doing that is to create an atmosphere for them to feel part off, that includes a full stadium so that they can make clients feel part of something special. The club will know that and will therefore need to provide the conditions for that atmosphere especially if we expand to 61,000.

 

[FanchesterCity]

I have absoloutely nothing to base it on except maybe wishful thinking, but I get a feeling the club are starting to get it, and going forward they will pass on not needing to worry abaout FFP to the fans. We'll just need to wait and see I suppose.

I'd like to think you're right but my suspicion is that the people running the club seem to be more interested in maximising revenue and if the can do that while only selling 35,000 seats then that won't bother them. I think they're testing the price elasticity of City tickets that's what will determine future price increases, not concern for fans.

It may even suit them to price season ticket holders out, if they think they can get more for their seats on a match by match basis. If you sell 36,000 season tickets at £700 a season, plus 10,000 seats at £50 per game, that brings in £34.7m a season.

If you put season tickets up to £800 but only sell 30,000, that leaves you 16,000 seats to sell per game. Selling those at £50 per game would bring in a total of £39.2m. Even if you sold the individual seats at a small premium to the pro-rata season ticket price in that second example (£45), you would still gross £37.7m.

That's perfectly correct, of course, it's a balancing act, because some games wouldn't attract tourist fans, hence the ST holder is giving the club a 'secure' revenue per game. There's also the PR aspect of season ticket handling... and pricing them out would be terrible PR, but having a lowest price in the league ticket is great PR. They just need to adjust the amount of season tickets available to get away with it without being noticed (by the masses).

I keep trying to get this point across to many fans. Season ticket holders don't come to the game and buy shirts or scarves. They are hardcore fans on a fairly predictable budget. If you go to Old Trafford, there's literally thousands of tourists buying full kit / flasks / bags / hats... they are 'must have' souvenirs, much like visiting Buckingham Palace. That's the sad side of the game for me, but a necessary evil if we are to compete financially with the big boys.

All of that said, I'd love to see the figures for the 'sweet spot' on pricing of food and drink etc. I'm am absolutely convinced (on instinct, not evidence) that far more people would eat and drink at City if the prices were favourable. MacDonalds outside Asda make a killing on match days, and that's revenue City could be getting. I suspect people are choosing MacD's because they prefer the product / prices.

I take a small flask of coffee. If City charged a decent price, I'd buy from City. They don't, so I don't.

 

[Originals]

This has got to be a rag/wum. Go support a shit club in div 2 then if you don't like being champions.

Why does the above have to be a rag/wum? I think a lot of Blues are thinking like this. Ok maybe not back down to the third tier but at least pre money. There will come a point when Manchester City are not Manchester City anymore.

You preferred the 'City experience' under Stuart Pearce ?

Crazy isnt it.

People would rather watch us do fuck all for 34 years because its not "Manchester City" it only isn't your Manchester City now because we are no longer doing fuck all and now challenging for trophies.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

If you want to reduce the number of people outside the stadium just before kick off then get the Sky match on the TVs on the concourse. People would be in the stadium watching the game instead of the various pubs around the stadium. They wait until the final whistle on the TV game and then wander doown to the ground.
But thereagain that would mean nobody staring at a stage at city square, which has totally lost its appeal to me.
Whilst City are making big steps to improve certain areas they are totall missing out on so many aspects of "the match day experience".

ps.....as for the email "we missed you at City Live"

It appealed to you at some point?

Can't say it ever did to me. You can't hear the band properly because their sound bounces off all the hard surfaces - a technique perfected in Guantanamo Bay I presume, and the video lags behind the commentary. There's nowhere to sit and wherever you stand someone is pushing by you. I'd love to sometimes have a quick cup of tea, maybe a bite to eat and listen to some music in a relaxed environment. They'd be better scrapping the stage and having busker type street entertainment dotted around.

Hopefully they'll have to sort this out if the North Stand gets expanded.

 

[blueparrot]

Why does the above have to be a rag/wum? I think a lot of Blues are thinking like this. Ok maybe not back down to the third tier but at least pre money. There will come a point when Manchester City are not Manchester City anymore.

You preferred the 'City experience' under Stuart Pearce ?

Crazy isnt it.

People would rather watch us do fuck all for 34 years because its not "Manchester City" it only isn't your Manchester City now because we are no longer doing fuck all and now challenging for trophies.

Probably the same as people that stopped liking bands when they got bigger.

 

[panzer1311]

Schalke played Dortmund in the Ruhr derby, the biggest game in Germany last weekend .
some tickets cost 15 euros ( about 12 quid ) , ............ and you can drink a pint watching it .

surely things have to change in English football ?

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Football has been my passion and life for a long long time (Well all of 40yrs).Other things are more important to me now such as my family,however.
Do I want to go back to Maine Road-No thanks. I really never got used to dog shit alley!
Do I want to keep winning things-Of course I do,but at what price to the every day man/woman and child.
What irked me about the comments the other night from Ginger and Camel gob was the fact they are millionaire footballers in their own bubble.They have no idea about what 95% of families are living like. Literally day by day,hand to mouth. So for them to stick the boot in like they did was disgusting as it wasn't even balanced.
Ticket pricing is the number one issue for debate in modern football in my honest opinion.
As GDM says to alienate the core support of a club is the worst thing they can do.
I understand we have newer supporters who have only been supporting us for the last few yrs perhaps more affluent supporters,but the club should be trying to maintain the hardcore support who were then in the dark days.
£35 may sound cheap to many however for many a working class family £35 here and £20 there etc soon mounts up.

I really do hope that we as a club (One of the nouveaue riche) ,who seem to be frowned upon on by so many fronts for are so called "oil" money and "ruining football, are the first club who really do attempt to keep ticketing at an affordable price for the supporters who do not have as much disposable income as others.

 

[worsleyweb]

Football has been my passion and life for a long long time (Well all of 40yrs).Other things are more important to me now such as my family,however.
Do I want to go back to Maine Road-No thanks. I really never got used to dog shit alley!
Do I want to keep winning things-Of course I do,but at what price to the every day man/woman and child.
What irked me about the comments the other night from Ginger and Camel gob was the fact they are millionaire footballers in their own bubble.They have no idea about what 95% of families are living like. Literally day by day,hand to mouth. So for them to stick the boot in like they did was disgusting as it wasn't even balanced.
Ticket pricing is the number one issue for debate in modern football in my honest opinion.
As GDM says to alienate the core support of a club is the worst thing they can do.
I understand we have newer supporters who have only been supporting us for the last few yrs perhaps more affluent supports,but the club should be trying to maintain the hardcore support who were then in the dark days.
£35 may sound cheap to many however for many a working class family £35 here and £20 there etc soon mounts up.

I really do hope that we as a club (One of the nouveaue riche) ,who seem to be frowned upon on by so many fronts for are so called "oil" money and "ruining football, are the first club who really do attempt to keep ticketing at an affordable price for the supporters who do not have as much disposable income as others.

Great post - hope one day we see universal £10 tickets for under 16s at City.

 

[LoveCity]

Schalke played Dortmund in the Ruhr derby, the biggest game in Germany last weekend .
some tickets cost 15 euros ( about 12 quid ) , ............ and you can drink a pint watching it .

surely things have to change in English football ?

You'd be hard pressed to find a single supporter in the country who wouldn't embrace the German model. It's perfect for the fans and caters to all types. The German model allows a man on the dole or a multimillionaire to enjoy the same game in the same stadium because of a good pricing structure. From cheap safe standing to lavish corporate facilities. They cherish and prize their supporters.

Unfortunately, it doesn't make enough money for your typical Premier League CEO, most of whom have no affection for or connection to the club's fans or heritage. Premier League football clubs don't gives a toss about the working man and just want to fill the club treasury as much as possible. These people do not see fans, they see statistics, numbers, assets to be exploited for every last penny. Most of them, anyway. It may be nostalgia talking, but Cook actually seemed fond of the fans and wanted to keep things realistic. No doubt Soriano does the job better than Cook from a business (and PR...) point of view, but...

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

The questions I forgot to mention in my post was this.

Who at City is responsible for ticket pricing?
Do the club actively engage with supporters,supporters clubs etc in relation to the issue of ticket pricing?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I don't think anyone really wants to go back to the Stuart Pearce/League 1 days. But what I believe they're trying to say is that we were taken more seriously as a group when the proportion of total revenue we contributed as match day fans was far more significant than it is now.

When I was involved in the Supporters Trust, Stuart Pearce went on the radio before a game to slag us off saying. "John Wardle has put £20m into this club and unless they can do the same these people shouldn't criticise".

My response was "We put at least that in every season by buying tickets and merchandise. We don't get interest on it & it's not repayable. That's why we should be listened to. "

 

[mancityvstoke]

Loved chanting Psycho me

 

[CatMan]

The questions I forgot to mention in my post was this.

Who at City is responsible for ticket pricing?
Do the club actively engage with supporters,supporters clubs etc in relation to the issue of ticket pricing?

It's not just ticket pricing (although it's a huge part), we desperately need someone with influence at the club to get the away fans moved and take the lead and be brave by implementing a 2 tier safe standing end that is accessible and affordable to those who can make the noise.

Otherwise we can talk about saving a quid here and 2 pounds there but the fundamental lack of atmosphere and next generation will never be addressed.