Today's shooting in America thread

SWP's back said:
Yes, yes you could. There are a huge number of examples of fine upstanding and law abiding citizens that legally own gun losing the plot and committing mass killings. They probably also felt they could shake their heads at the thought until they snapped.
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Uh OK.

Still smh, and now also rolling my eyes.

We are all just one bad day away from “snapping” and running for our guns to commit mass murder!

Where do you get this shit?!
 
SWP's back said:
But we have a long running study in the real world in that every country has teenagers that play first person shooters and yet it’s only the US that has mass shootings as a weekly occurrence. If video games played any part then we’d see far more mass shootings in the rest of the developed world.
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The absence of weekly occurrences isn’t conclusive proof that games cannot have an effect. Studies can be flawed and misconceived. My point remains that in the minds of some mentally disturbed individuals the world of fantasy and reality can elide and that engaging in games where going on a mass killing spree in normalised could have the tendency to blur the lines somewhat in a mentally disturbed individual, especially in a culture where firearms are more readily available.

It’s actually an argument for more gun control, not less.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Uh OK.

Still smh, and now also rolling my eyes.

We are all just one bad day away from “snapping” and running for our guns to commit mass murder!

Where do you get this shit?!
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From the hundreds of incidents of previously law abiding citizens going on killing sprees using their legally owned guns. Shake your head, roll your eyes all you want, it doesn’t bother me in the slightest but I’m eternally grateful I will never live in a country with gun laws like yours. If my opinion upsets you then I’m sure there are plenty of forums where U.K. citizens won’t be posting their thoughts on your idiotic laws.
 
SWP's back said:
From the hundreds of incidents of previously law abiding citizens going on killing sprees using their legally owned guns. Shake your head, roll your eyes all you want, it doesn’t bother me in the slightest but I’m eternally grateful I will never live in a country with gun laws like yours. If my opinion upsets you then I’m sure there are plenty of forums where U.K. citizens won’t be posting their thoughts on your idiotic laws.
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It doesn’t upset me, it just highlights your broad brush ignorance.

There are over 400 MILLION guns in America and a tiny fraction of them are used in anger.

If you want to look at reducing over half of the gun deaths in the USA, simply improve the mental health services, as suicides account for about 55% of gun deaths.

It is undeniable that American gun culture is anomalous to Western society, but to stretch that to normal, well-adjusted, gun owners being a concern borders on silly. Extending it to me, someone who has spent his adult life being medically scrutinized and has everything to live for, is actually silly.

Of course, anyone can say “never say never,” but I can assure you, I don’t own guns because of some power fetish. I owned my first firearm through my work. I bought my first so I didn’t have to use my service weapon to maintain proficiency. My second was so I could save money on ammunition (9mm is ubiquitous, while .40S&W can be expensive and harder to find). My 3rd is highly concealable to allow me to travel with a weapon, if and when I deem it in my best interests.

In fact, when I finish the .40cal ammo I have, I may sell that firearm, because I don’t need it and don’t want to waste money buying more ammo for it!

So, you can broad brush all gun owners to your hearts content, but you will quickly be dismissed by most people who understand both the culture and the statistics.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
The absence of weekly occurrences isn’t conclusive proof that games cannot have an effect. Studies can be flawed and misconceived. My point remains that in the minds of some mentally disturbed individuals the world of fantasy and reality can elide and that engaging in games where going on a mass killing spree in normalised could have the tendency to blur the lines somewhat in a mentally disturbed individual, especially in a culture where firearms are more readily available.
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Well as long as we're speculating, one could argue that they create an outlet for disturbed individuals that would otherwise look to the real world to get their violence kicks.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
It doesn’t upset me, it just highlights your broad brush ignorance.

There are over 400 MILLION guns in America and a tiny fraction of them are used in anger.

If you want to look at reducing over half of the gun deaths in the USA, simply improve the mental health services, as suicides account for about 55% of gun deaths.

It is undeniable that American gun culture is anomalous to Western society, but to stretch that to normal, well-adjusted, gun owners being a concern borders on silly. Extending it to me, someone who has spent his adult life being medically scrutinized and has everything to live for, is actually silly.

Of course, anyone can say “never say never,” but I can assure you, I don’t own guns because of some power fetish. I owned my first firearm through my work. I bought my first so I didn’t have to use my service weapon to maintain proficiency. My second was so I could save money on ammunition (9mm is ubiquitous, while .40S&W can be expensive and harder to find). My 3rd is highly concealable to allow me to travel with a weapon, if and when I deem it in my best interests.

In fact, when I finish the .40cal ammo I have, I may sell that firearm, because I don’t need it and don’t want to waste money buying more ammo for it!

So, you can broad brush all gun owners to your hearts content, but you will quickly be dismissed by most people who understand both the culture and the statistics.
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But you fail to understand that every other, mentally stable, pre-breakdown gun owner would likely have said the same things “I’m not a danger” and they weren’t, right up until they were.

I’m sure you’re a lovely friend and a great husband and father but I’m glad we don’t share the same social circle or suburb because you own a gun and I don’t want to be in the wrong place the day you’re no longer sane and rational and you snap. It likely will never happen but…. but it’s like playing the lottery. It’s unlikely one will win with any given ticket but someone tends to win each week anyway.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Or reduce the number of guns, maybe?
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I generally don’t dream out loud on a Forum, but sure.

Now, given the realities of actual life, what’s your next suggestion?

Some research for your perusal…

www.pewresearch.org

The demographics of gun ownership

Understanding gun ownership in America is not as simple as knowing who does and does not own a gun. Some Americans who don’t personally own guns live with
www.pewresearch.org www.pewresearch.org
 
ChicagoBlue said:
I generally don’t dream out loud on a Forum, but sure.

Now, given the realities of actual life, what’s your next suggestion?

Some research for your perusal…

www.pewresearch.org

The demographics of gun ownership

Understanding gun ownership in America is not as simple as knowing who does and does not own a gun. Some Americans who don’t personally own guns live with
www.pewresearch.org www.pewresearch.org
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Not sure how that article undermines the argument that less guns equals less gun related deaths. I don’t have a next suggestion. That’s my suggestion and it’s founded entirely upon logic.

If the collective will was there, it would happen and the fact it’s not does not speak positively about the society you inhabit.
 
SWP's back said:
But you fail to understand that every other, mentally stable, pre-breakdown gun owner would likely have said the same things “I’m not a danger” and they weren’t, right up until they were.

I’m sure you’re a lovely friend and a great husband and father but I’m glad we don’t share the same social circle or suburb because you own a gun and I don’t want to be in the wrong place the day you’re no longer sane and rational and you snap. It likely will never happen but…. but it’s like playing the lottery. It’s unlikely one will win with any given ticket but someone tends to win each week anyway.
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Do you feel the same way about people with access to knives and cars?

You cite some wild, extremely low statistical “maybe” as a reason for potentially cutting large swaths of society out of your life, as if gun ownership is some kind of moral and physical threat test.

My neighbors have no idea I have firearms, just as I have no idea if they do or not. It’s a private matter that I only share here to provide some contextual balance to the extreme anti-gun sentiment expressed here.

You are completely entitled to your views, no matter how extreme and unenforceable they may be. They don’t concern or upset me.

Most of my comments on this subject are documented, if often misunderstood:

. I am strongly in favor of strong gun control laws
. Outside of this Forum there are only a small handful of people who know I am even a gun owner, let alone have multiple firearms.
. I strongly advocate safe ownership, including separating guns from ammo and locking up both, etc…
. I’m not a gun nut and know little about guns, other than the ones I own, which are all very similar.
. I practice how to use them, so that I have mastery of the firearms and exercise responsible ownership.
. I am not an advocate of 2A, but I am enough of a realist to understand it’s not changing anytime soon. For me, that’s the starting reality for any discussion of American gun culture.
. I think it’s sadly amusing to read most people’s uneducated (as in unrealistic) view of American gun culture and 2A, whilst expected to kowtow to their moral superiority.

We can agree to disagree, but I can assure you, other people have no reason to worry about my firearms…unless they violate my family’s safe space in a threatening manner.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Not sure how that article undermines the argument that less guns equals less gun related deaths. I don’t have a next suggestion. That’s my suggestion and it’s founded entirely upon logic.

If the collective will was there, it would happen and the fact it’s not does not speak positively about the society you inhabit.
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The research was presented to give you a realistic view of firearms in the USA, so you could lay that data over the threat you perceive.

I’m not nearly as sure as you regarding what it says about either “collective will” or the “society (I) inhabit,” but if moral superiority is your thing, go for it!

Without 60 left wing Senators, a strongly Democratic House, a left leaning SCOTUS and 2/3 of the State Governors as avowed left wingers, 2A is going nowhere. That means we all live in a society that isn’t about to change 2A, so I’ll just have to live in the real world for now.
 
Just wondering how many of the US gun owners who have posted on this forum (or in the general population) are members of a local, state "well regulated militia"?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Or reduce the number of guns, maybe?
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Canada has more fire-arms per person than the US, and a tiny fraction of gun-crime. An arguement/decision could be made to arm everyone,not one i would make, but one the US public might. Talk of banning guns is to ignore the reality that it will never happen , hard drugs are banned yet are more available now than ever. Banning automatic weapons that are used in mass shootings is another dead-end, simply because there are millions already out there. The US is riven by race, by ideology-driven economics, by vast wealth versus poverty, politically aligned mass media fanning the flames of hatred. More mass shootings are likelier than a reduction, in the forseeable future. Years ago the perps were often a "loner" with a grudge against society, they still exist but outright racially driven organised militias have proliferated, united by the trump propaganda that sees votes in racial hatred.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
The “normalization” is because it has ALWAYS BEEN NORMAL. The use of that term suggests abnormality, which is completely false.

You can feel as you want about whether it should be normal or not, but to suggest it has EVER been any other way is intellectually dishonest.

I am wholly in favor of strict and enforced penalties for anyone who commits a crime with a gun…loaded or unloaded, used of simply wielded.

33 shot and 5 murdered in Chicago this weekend, as we had a mini heatwave that had everyone outdoors.

Accordingly, this Summer is going to be a bloodbath, as always, when the heat gets turned up!

However, the biggest problem people seem to have is that it appears to be migrating from being relatively contained in South Side neighborhood, tit for tat, banger shootings into Downtown Chicago, with more and more “give me your phone/wallet/valuables” mugging sand shootings in prime retail and restaurant districts.

It’s not going to be pretty and I have told my kids to steer clear of the city this summer! That’s just sad, given that is when Chicago excels!

Disclaimer: I am the owner of 3 Glocks handguns and, apparently, only a hair trigger from a “rampage,” so I could be part of the problem?! smh
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Yes. You could. Break people down, leave them heartbroken, destroyed and lower than they've ever felt and see how they look at that gun differently. Nah, you just don't want a gun in the hands of someone who feels rock bottom, do you? I'm not saying you would be that person, but also why wouldn't you? If it's there, if you have a mental breakdown, who knows how you look at it differently? Maybe you feel so low that you do something you'd regret for ever, shoot a partner who has destroyed your life as they're now with someone else? It takes barely a second to do it.

Unsurprisingly, people's thoughts are influenced by the options they have. No gun, no gun related thoughts cross their minds. This is why you don't make weapons available to people so easily. Cos people are emotional and prone to mistakes.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
The research was presented to give you a realistic view of firearms in the USA, so you could lay that data over the threat you perceive.

I’m not nearly as sure as you regarding what it says about either “collective will” or the “society (I) inhabit,” but if moral superiority is your thing, go for it!

Without 60 left wing Senators, a strongly Democratic House, a left leaning SCOTUS and 2/3 of the State Governors as avowed left wingers, 2A is going nowhere. That means we all live in a society that isn’t about to change 2A, so I’ll just have to live in the real world for now.
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When you say 2A, I assume you’re referring to a legislative provision that was devised around two and half centuries ago.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Do you feel the same way about people with access to knives and cars?

You cite some wild, extremely low statistical “maybe” as a reason for potentially cutting large swaths of society out of your life, as if gun ownership is some kind of moral and physical threat test.

My neighbors have no idea I have firearms, just as I have no idea if they do or not. It’s a private matter that I only share here to provide some contextual balance to the extreme anti-gun sentiment expressed here.

You are completely entitled to your views, no matter how extreme and unenforceable they may be. They don’t concern or upset me.

Most of my comments on this subject are documented, if often misunderstood:

. I am strongly in favor of strong gun control laws
. Outside of this Forum there are only a small handful of people who know I am even a gun owner, let alone have multiple firearms.
. I strongly advocate safe ownership, including separating guns from ammo and locking up both, etc…
. I’m not a gun nut and know little about guns, other than the ones I own, which are all very similar.
. I practice how to use them, so that I have mastery of the firearms and exercise responsible ownership.
. I am not an advocate of 2A, but I am enough of a realist to understand it’s not changing anytime soon. For me, that’s the starting reality for any discussion of American gun culture.
. I think it’s sadly amusing to read most people’s uneducated (as in unrealistic) view of American gun culture and 2A, whilst expected to kowtow to their moral superiority.

We can agree to disagree, but I can assure you, other people have no reason to worry about my firearms…unless they violate my family’s safe space in a threatening manner.
Click to expand...

If 20,000 people a year, every single year, were being stabbed to death or deliberately murdered with cars I probably would change my opinion on regulating them, yes.
 
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