Tony Blair

[Rascal]

I am serious about no 17. Saddam was an evil tyrant and mass murderer, and I fully support Blair's decision to help America remove him. I don't particularly care whether he had WMD or not.

The Tories fully supported it too. Only the Lib Dems were against.

If the tories are so against Blairs wars, why have we still got troops in Afghanistan?

 

[SWP's back]

I think comparing this to the Thatcher thread, a lot more people hate Thatcher than Blair and Blair is far more recent.

Blair is hated for mistakes abroad, Thatcher is hated for mistakes at home.

Thatcher lost power over 20 years ago, it will be interesting to see how Blair is viewed in 2027.

What i will add is both Thatcher and Blair were political titans compared to the butch Cameron, who will undoubtably be thought of as one of the worst PMs in our history.

Difference is that people also still love Thatcher, how many love Blair?<br /><br />-- Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:06 pm --<br /><br />

I am serious about no 17. Saddam was an evil tyrant and mass murderer, and I fully support Blair's decision to help America remove him. I don't particularly care whether he had WMD or not.

The Tories fully supported it too. Only the Lib Dems were against.

If the tories are so against Blairs wars, why have we still got troops in Afghanistan?

And why did the Tories support it? Because they had been fed the same lies that the rest of the country had thanks to sexed up government dossiers.

Your myopia is laughable tonight.

 

[Rascal]

I think comparing this to the Thatcher thread, a lot more people hate Thatcher than Blair and Blair is far more recent.

Blair is hated for mistakes abroad, Thatcher is hated for mistakes at home.

Thatcher lost power over 20 years ago, it will be interesting to see how Blair is viewed in 2027.

What i will add is both Thatcher and Blair were political titans compared to the butch Cameron, who will undoubtably be thought of as one of the worst PMs in our history.

Difference is that people also still love Thatcher, how many love Blair?

Thats why i said look at his legacy in 2027 and then compare.

I dont love Blair and at the moment the general narrative is he is hated. If in 2027 Iraq is a growing free economic power, he may be judged very differently, he may not.

The love of Thatcher is mawkish, its a typical right wing thing to look to the past for heroes, just as they did for years with Churchill just as they do with there politics. It also shows how much of a vacuum there is on the right of politics when there hero is an old lady. Speaks volumes about the lack of talent on the right.

 

[Rascal]

And why did the Tories support it? Because they had been fed the same lies that the rest of the country had thanks to sexed up government dossiers.

Your myopia is laughable tonight.

You seem to ignore that there was a Republican president in power in the USA, the tories could not have rebelled against Blair because of that, it could have split the party asunder.

Please dont get me wrong i wasnt happy with going to war with Iraq, dossier or not, the job should have been done in the first gulf war. I have no idea why we are still in Afghanistan, i saw little need for the Falklands war either.

Isnt myopia what rabbits get?

 

[ClaudioDeyna]

'The last one's a joke right? Archbishop Desmond Tutu has called Blair 'a war criminal like Milosevic'. More people are dying now than they ever did under Saddam and if the war was so just why the lies, WMD as an example.'


If I understand him properly, Tutu thinks Blair was responsible for a war for which there was no proper legal authority. Even if you agree, though it isn't a view shared by every international lawyer by any means, Tutu wants Blair tried for 'aggression'.

Except that crime is not yet indictable before the ICC. Even after ratification, the law won't be retroactive; the ICC will have jurisdiction over crimes of aggression, but 'only over those committed one year after 30 States Parties have ratified the newly-made amendment'.

If you think the Iraq war is 'criminal', that’s bad, but if you also favour rule of law, Blair shouldn’t be tried by the ICC. Unless, you're not too fussy about the principles governing the application of law. Archbishop in a Desmond's not that fussy. He feels Blair and Bush are legally responsible for those killed not by US and UK forces, but by others, including in terrorist attacks. Tutu even suggests 'the hardened hearts and minds of members of the human family' are all Blair and Bush's fault as well. His concept of guilt I reckon is pretty elastic.

 

[stonerblue]

After years of Thatcher ruining the country, destroying the unions, closing pits and all her other disgraceful antics, at long last along came the Labour party with Tony Blair at the helm.
Lets look back at how he brought prosperity to Britain and re engaged with the unions. Lets start with the steel industry. He helped an Indian billionaire buy a steel works in Romania after the business man donated £125k to the labour party. Oh sorry bad example.
The uk car industry. Labour gave 16 million pounds to the Phoenix Consortium to help relaunch the British car industry. It was a captialist conspiracy that meant they went bust and certainly not a waste of taxpayers money.
Staying with the car industry, he did provide multi million pounds in sweetners so that the Japanese car giants Nissan could provide jobs to a few hundred Mackems. OK they were forced to have just one single union representing them but it did mean the factorywas productive and that the subsequent profits could go straight back to Japan.
He of course did a lot for the UK arms industry. Why invite the Saudis over to watch a mock demonstration when they can see the real thing in the own back yard.
Human Rights. Who can forget that it was the Labour Party that brought this to the forefront and put it into English Law. Fortunately Tonys wife was a leading Human Rights Lawyer so could provide expert help on this matter.

I could go on but I am sure many other posters would like to contribute and tell us of their fond meories of the man and all his good work and how he undid all the terrible evils of Thatchers regime.

She was a twat. He is a twat.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

One thing I will say is that some people will always dislike people in political authority, possibly because, among other things, they fail to appreciate that we live in an almost infinitely complex world where black and white choices between right and wrong rarely exist.

Running the country involves a number of difficult decisions which will involve pain, anguish and blood being on your hands to some extent, whatever you decide to do/not do. I try and appreciate that fact as much as possible when judging political leaders.

Does it mean that I empathise with them all? Certainly not, but it does temper my views on some of them, and I would include Blair in that, even though he fucked up and got it wrong on Iraq.

 

[ClaudioDeyna]

Human Rights. Who can forget that it was the Labour Party that brought this to the forefront and put it into English Law.

Terrible thing he did there. Ditto the minimum wage.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Human Rights. Who can forget that it was the Labour Party that brought this to the forefront and put it into English Law.

Terrible thing he did there. Ditto the minimum wage.

They were both fantastic pieces of legislation and things for which the Labour Party can rightly be proud.

 

[sir baconface]

The love of Thatcher is mawkish, its a typical right wing thing to look to the past for heroes, just as they did for years with Churchill just as they do with there politics. It also shows how much of a vacuum there is on the right of politics when there hero is an old lady. Speaks volumes about the lack of talent on the right.

Agree with a lack of talent on the right since Mrs T. Meanwhile post-Blair Labour has oozed charisma out of very pore:

Exhibit A: Gordon Brown

And just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...

Exhibit B: Millifreak.

A case of pot calling kettle burnt-arse, me thinks.