Top 6 managers' tenure

[OB1]

I’m not going to pretend that Mark Hughes’ time in charge has not so far been disappointing overall. However, I do think it is too soon to draw with any great certainty conclusions about whether or not he can ultimately do the job that is required in the circumstances (in the widest possible sense) that City find themselves in.

City have some key weaknesses that Hughes has not had enough time and money yet to address and he will not be able to solve them all in this next window, regardless of how much cash he has available. He should though be able to improve the squad and how he does that will tell us some more about him. If he can improve the most pressing weaknesses, perhaps everyone will gain some confidence.

If you look at the top six in the Premier League at the season’s halfway stage, you will find five managers whose tenure with those clubs in the top flight exceeds the rest of the division, with one exception: Southgate has been a Boro slightly longer than MON has been at Villa. The only team in the top six with a recent appointment is Chelsea. I do not think it is a coincidence that the top six clubs mostly have managers who have been there for a while. Clearly these clubs have for the most part appointed experienced managers who had won something somewhere but, in several cases, they have also stuck by these managers when results have probably not met expectations. How long, how much and how many personnel changes has it taken Rafa to produce a team that looks like it might actually be genuine title contenders?

Hughes may not be the man but I personally believe that if he is given another two years (to get to tenure MON is now at), he will prove good enough to get us challenging the top four. Ultimately that may not be considered good enough and more will be expected but giving him real time in the job to develop the squad into one that really is his might just reward us all.

 

[BobKowalski]

If you look at the top six in the Premier League at the season’s halfway stage, you will find five managers whose tenure with those clubs in the top flight exceeds the rest of the division, with one exception: Southgate has been a Boro slightly longer than MON has been at Villa. The only team in the top six with a recent appointment is Chelsea. I do not think it is a coincidence that the top six clubs mostly have managers who have been there for a while. Clearly these clubs have for the most part appointed experienced managers who had won something somewhere but, in several cases, they have also stuck by these managers when results have probably not met expectations. How long, how much and how many personnel changes has it taken Rafa to produce a team that looks like it might actually be genuine title contenders?

Personally I think the continuity arguement is weak at best. The reason these managers have stayed in place is because they have proved themselves worthy of staying in place. Rafa won the CL early on which has bought him time he would not have had otherwise. Wenger was appointed amidst howls of derision however again he won the PL title early on so an early marker was put down that silenced the critics.

Chelsea have seemingly adopted a European policy where the manager gets three years if he wins the big trophies and 1 year if he wins nothing or a minor trophy at best - what happens with Scolari at the end of this season will be interesting. Elsewhere the top clubs change managers/coaches seemingly every season or two irrespective of what they win. Inter Milan ditched Mancini after winning Serie A, Madrid ditched Fabio after winning the title and so on.

Staying with an unproven manager at the top level purely for the sake of 'stability' is just another way of saying despite our resources we are content with second best. Hughes to retain his job needs to get into the top 4 minimum. He cannot do that this season so he needs to produce top 4 form from Jan 1st to end of season, ie he has to prove to ADUG he has what it takes to get City into the CL. If he gets the nod then he has to the same from the start of the season. Any slip ups and Xmas 09 will be the cut off point.

The first six months of Hughes in charge though has been rank and yeah people can whine that he has not been given a chance and things were against him blah, blah but seriously his management so far has been abysmal. Against that there are signs he is finally getting his act together which bodes well for getting us away from this relegation nonsense. Whether it will be enough to save him in the summer I doubt but his destiny is very much in his own hands.

 

[KolarovsLeftPeg]

You could probably make some sort of mathmatical rule on it.
For example Rafa Benitez won CL in his first or second season, I forget which.
That probably bought him 2 years of shit.
The FA Cup also probably a year.

Last year when the scum started terribly I remember hearing somebody on the tele saying 'Ferguson out' and then laugh, with Wigan's manager at the time (Hutchings I think) it was actually 'He's in trouble' (no laugh).

If Hughes wins us the Fa cup and Uefa cup this year, no matter how bad the first 6 games are next year he'll be in a job.

Moyes is proven
Rafa is proven
Scumbag is proven
Scolari isn't and if Chelsea started dropping lots of points he could get the boot.
Brown has exceeded early expectations therefore he is proven.. etc. etc.
Hughes didn't win anything with Blackburn though did finish them 7th, but which matters more..
Finishing high to get into a competetion, or actually winning it.
Would you rather finish 9th and through the fair play win the UEFA cup or finish 5th and automatically qualify but only reach the Quarters or Semis.
I know which one I'd want and I'm pretty sure it's the same with a fair few fans.

 

[Corky]

Good job our owners are not myopic.

Ironic that Blackburns English ownership got twitchy fingers before ours.

A team that struggles to pull the crowds doesn't want the Big Sam style to decrease it further.

 

[Kinkladzeisgod]

Everyone knows Hughes 1st 6 months in charge has not been what we, he or the owners would have wanted but then neither were the last six months of Sven's year in charge. Personally I like what Hughes has done in and around the club, we look like we mean business and there is a much more serious and determined attitude. The players are fit, we expect to win most games because we are now capable of beating pretty much anyone on our day. What we need now is a tweaking of our midfield, a proven goalscorer and a rebuilding of the defence so that when it is not our day we can still win games.

Hughes has built his reputation on strong teams with solid defences and no city fan should be in any doubt that we will improve this in January and again in the summer. If you add this to the fact as a team we have the players to open up any team we will come good......and not just good, VERY GOOD!!

That will then leave only one problem, a proven goalscorer. If in Jan we sign a Bellamy or Santa Cruz because thats all we can get so be it. They will improve the team in the short term. The best news is that as and when we reach near to the higher levels of the league we have the funds to sign the top players when they become avaliable. We all remember not being able to sign Van Buyten for a small 5.5m when he wanted to come and we wanted to sign him.....NO MORE, those days are gone!!!

Finally, we have to remember that a team like ours which is set to grow quickly over the next few years will sign some players for over the odds who in two years time will be shipped on on kept in reserve when we are in a position to sign the next player in the development line...........lets not worry about it and enjoy the ride. If we sign Bellamy because that is the best we can get, its the best we can get. We know Hughes would sign the top stars if he could but not all top players are in the Robinho situation.......

Kinky

 

[OB1]

I'm not suggesting that City simply stick with a manager for the sake of continuity or stability but rushing to judge a manager in half a season is rash in my view. Look at the two halves Sven had, what would have followed? Would he, given a year's experience of the squad, have made changes that addressed the teams weaknesses? Sven was a proven manager.

If Hughes is a talented manager and is learning from his time in charge, he and his team will improve. Expecting top four performance in the second half of the season is unrealistic: we won't be able to get the players in to deliver that or have the time to get them to gel to the degree required for that sort of performance. so if that's the expectation of the owner, Hughes will certainly not get time beyond the end of the season.


Moyes may be deemed proven now but he wasn't when he went to Everton and he nearly got them relegated at one point but both he and his team have developed since then.

 

[KolarovsLeftPeg]

I'm not suggesting that City simply stick with a manager for the sake of continuity or stability but rushing to judge a manager in half a season is rash in my view. Look at the two halves Sven had, what would have followed? Would he, given a year's experience of the squad, have made changes that addressed the teams weaknesses? Sven was a proven manager.

If Hughes is a talented manager and is learning from his time in charge, he and his team will improve. Expecting top four performance in the second half of the season is unrealistic: we won't be able to get the players in to deliver that or have the time to get them to gel to the degree required for that sort of performance. so if that's the expectation of the owner, Hughes will certainly not get time beyond the end of the season.


Moyes may be deemed proven now but he wasn't when he went to Everton and he nearly got them relegated at one point but both he and his team have developed since then.

I agree with you about the Moyes bit and it happened with Taggart too, but I suppose that was just faith.. It does appear our owners have faith in Hughes.
In all honestly he would have been gone after the WBA game for me but I'm more than happy to wait to see what happens, if he fucks it up after January I would have him gone though.

 

[JOGAMIGMOG]

Scolari will get the boot this season if they win nowt. I reckon Abramovic will start to lose a bit of 'God status' amongst the Chelsea faithful soon too - he already is actually. I also reckon that Abramovic will see the only way out of this hole would be to re-appoint Mourinho as manager.

Wonder what the odds on that are? ;)

 

[OB1]

Everyone knows Hughes 1st 6 months in charge has not been what we, he or the owners would have wanted but then neither were the last six months of Sven's year in charge. Personally I like what Hughes has done in and around the club, we look like we mean business and there is a much more serious and determined attitude. The players are fit, we expect to win most games because we are now capable of beating pretty much anyone on our day. What we need now is a tweaking of our midfield, a proven goalscorer and a rebuilding of the defence so that when it is not our day we can still win games.

Hughes has built his reputation on strong teams with solid defences and no city fan should be in any doubt that we will improve this in January and again in the summer. If you add this to the fact as a team we have the players to open up any team we will come good......and not just good, VERY GOOD!!

That will then leave only one problem, a proven goalscorer. If in Jan we sign a Bellamy or Santa Cruz because thats all we can get so be it. They will improve the team in the short term. The best news is that as and when we reach near to the higher levels of the league we have the funds to sign the top players when they become avaliable. We all remember not being able to sign Van Buyten for a small 5.5m when he wanted to come and we wanted to sign him.....NO MORE, those days are gone!!!

Finally, we have to remember that a team like ours which is set to grow quickly over the next few years will sign some players for over the odds who in two years time will be shipped on on kept in reserve when we are in a position to sign the next player in the development line...........lets not worry about it and enjoy the ride. If we sign Bellamy because that is the best we can get, its the best we can get. We know Hughes would sign the top stars if he could but not all top players are in the Robinho situation.......

Kinky

Sensible view IMO.

 

[OB1]

I'm not suggesting that City simply stick with a manager for the sake of continuity or stability but rushing to judge a manager in half a season is rash in my view. Look at the two halves Sven had, what would have followed? Would he, given a year's experience of the squad, have made changes that addressed the teams weaknesses? Sven was a proven manager.

If Hughes is a talented manager and is learning from his time in charge, he and his team will improve. Expecting top four performance in the second half of the season is unrealistic: we won't be able to get the players in to deliver that or have the time to get them to gel to the degree required for that sort of performance. so if that's the expectation of the owner, Hughes will certainly not get time beyond the end of the season.


Moyes may be deemed proven now but he wasn't when he went to Everton and he nearly got them relegated at one point but both he and his team have developed since then.

I agree with you about the Moyes bit and it happened with Taggart too, but I suppose that was just faith.. It does appear our owners have faith in Hughes.
In all honestly he would have been gone after the WBA game for me but I'm more than happy to wait to see what happens, if he fucks it up after January I would have him gone though.

He needs to get us to 40 points PDQ.