Top Gear

[The Pink Panther]

Love it big time I like billy Connolly and I already know what he sounds like,
So same old same old most weeks but I like to watch .
My fave's are as follows,
Polar chase
Vietnam
Africa
India delivering the scran was very good.

Best two articles on Top Gear were "Russian cars" and the "Toyota pick up truck" when they tried to destroy it. The Toyota article is in three parts on You Tube

 

[stonerblue]

Shit last night.

 

[Southbanken]

I'm going to tell a wrestling analogy now as its a very similar principle.

As I'm sure you all know, the HT of the Superbowl is a big deal in America where everybody tries to steal viewers. WWF were no different during an extremely popular time 15 years back called The Attitude Era.

Here they arranged a match at HT between two of their biggest stars, Mick Foley and The Rock. This was an "empty arena" match that was taped and shown "as live" whereby the two guys fight in an empty stadium and hijinks ensue as they spill out of the ring.

One of the participants, Mick Foley, wrote in his autobiography about his experiences in watching the match. He was in an airport bar during the broadcast of the Superbowl and asked the barman to switch it to the wrestling at HT, which he did. Initially there was some opposition to this but as the guys in the bar started watching it, they got more and more into the match. They laughed when Rock threw salsa into Foley's eyes and said "that was mild sauce, you baby". They were right on the edge of their seats when Foley kicked out of a Rock Bottom and started a comeback. As the match was ending people were actively enjoying it.

Then at the end of the match after Rock just won't stay down, Mick Foley has the brilliant idea of pinning Rock using a forklift and he gets the win.

Here's the problem; the crowd were totally into the match right until the forklift scene because they included a ridiculous camera angle that could not have been shot live. A full on close up of The Rock's face as the lift came down on him. Foley wrote that it killed the crowd in the airport lounge who were all complaining saying "how could they have filmed that?" and then started up with the "fake shit" that wrestling has to fight so hard against.

The point to this story is that this is a lesson that Top Gear needs so desperately to learn. Yes, we know that it's all fake but if you don't mention it then we're willing to suspend our disbelief to go along with the fun. However when you perform shots such as the Nova arriving on it's side after the supermarket run, you are insulting the intelligence of the audience and it jars them out of the entertainment into thinking "that's obviously fake". Both WWE and Top Gear rely on the suspension of disbelief and when you insult the audience, you break it and consequently their "buy-in" to the show.

This is why people generally think Top Gear is going downhill; it is becoming a show that is willing to break your suspension of disbelief in an effort to appear funny without realising that it CAN'T be funny if we look at it and instantly think "that's bullshit".

Here's that WWF match if anybody at all cares. That camera shot is at 18:30 or thereabouts.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRBZuQK6jg4[/youtube]

Compare to the framing of Clarkson in this shot at 0:40. He is very obviously over to the far right of the screen and it looks off-putting, then when the motorhome falls it snaps you out of it

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq6Qe4rFFJY[/youtube]

Great analogy and great post.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Shit last night.

Every episode where the credits roll and May, Hammond and Clarkson still have a pulse is shit.

 

[Skashion]

And another thing , as the great Stewart Lee commented.....that Richard 'hamster' Hammond .....he aint even a real hamster ....

Stewart Lee is the ultimate embodiment of the joyless fucker. If there was ever a nine year old child inside that man, it was abused into cynical misery by Jimmy Savile.<br /><br />-- Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:50 pm --<br /><br />

I'm going to tell a wrestling analogy now as its a very similar principle.

As I'm sure you all know, the HT of the Superbowl is a big deal in America where everybody tries to steal viewers. WWF were no different during an extremely popular time 15 years back called The Attitude Era.

Here they arranged a match at HT between two of their biggest stars, Mick Foley and The Rock. This was an "empty arena" match that was taped and shown "as live" whereby the two guys fight in an empty stadium and hijinks ensue as they spill out of the ring.

One of the participants, Mick Foley, wrote in his autobiography about his experiences in watching the match. He was in an airport bar during the broadcast of the Superbowl and asked the barman to switch it to the wrestling at HT, which he did. Initially there was some opposition to this but as the guys in the bar started watching it, they got more and more into the match. They laughed when Rock threw salsa into Foley's eyes and said "that was mild sauce, you baby". They were right on the edge of their seats when Foley kicked out of a Rock Bottom and started a comeback. As the match was ending people were actively enjoying it.

Then at the end of the match after Rock just won't stay down, Mick Foley has the brilliant idea of pinning Rock using a forklift and he gets the win.

Here's the problem; the crowd were totally into the match right until the forklift scene because they included a ridiculous camera angle that could not have been shot live. A full on close up of The Rock's face as the lift came down on him. Foley wrote that it killed the crowd in the airport lounge who were all complaining saying "how could they have filmed that?" and then started up with the "fake shit" that wrestling has to fight so hard against.

The point to this story is that this is a lesson that Top Gear needs so desperately to learn. Yes, we know that it's all fake but if you don't mention it then we're willing to suspend our disbelief to go along with the fun. However when you perform shots such as the Nova arriving on it's side after the supermarket run, you are insulting the intelligence of the audience and it jars them out of the entertainment into thinking "that's obviously fake". Both WWE and Top Gear rely on the suspension of disbelief and when you insult the audience, you break it and consequently their "buy-in" to the show.

This is why people generally think Top Gear is going downhill; it is becoming a show that is willing to break your suspension of disbelief in an effort to appear funny without realising that it CAN'T be funny if we look at it and instantly think "that's bullshit".

Here's that WWF match if anybody at all cares. That camera shot is at 18:30 or thereabouts.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRBZuQK6jg4[/youtube]

Compare to the framing of Clarkson in this shot at 0:40. He is very obviously over to the far right of the screen and it looks off-putting, then when the motorhome falls it snaps you out of it

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq6Qe4rFFJY[/youtube]

I think you're talking total bollocks to be honest. The Nova on its side was a joke. They weren't trying to con you into believing it was real.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Since when did TG change from the mechanics of cars, to a poor comedy programme.

Since Top Gears viewing figures went through the floor because it was shit

The real question is where have you been for the past 12 years to only just of noticed that

 

[TCIB]

I find myself not as much an avid viewer as i once was.
The final straw was the very poor settup fails and pranks.
They were in Norway and obviously just covered a car with snow of camera then pretended they hit it by accident.

If they go back to genuine shows with honest failures due to them attempting the impossible i will watch more.

 

[Damocles]

I think you're talking total bollocks to be honest. The Nova on its side was a joke. They weren't trying to con you into believing it was real.

I said that they knowingly broke the suspension of disbelief to make a joke. The problem with this is that you cannot put the genie back in the bottle. Once the "well that's just fake" idea applies to the Nova, the next "pretty fake" thing doesn't land like it would without the Nova.

And the whole "fake" thing is again one of those back and forth arguments. Yes we know it's fake. They know that we know it's fake. We know that they know that we know it's fake, but we all agree to put this to one side for the purposes of an entertaining show. Them showing us it's obviously fake for a joke is okay in small doses if the payoff is worth it but they've overused this trope and it's impacted the show at large

That was my point

 

[Skashion]

I think you're talking total bollocks to be honest. The Nova on its side was a joke. They weren't trying to con you into believing it was real.

I said that they knowingly broke the suspension of disbelief to make a joke. The problem with this is that you cannot put the genie back in the bottle. Once the "well that's just fake" idea applies to the Nova, the next "pretty fake" thing doesn't land like it would without the Nova.

And the whole "fake" thing is again one of those back and forth arguments. Yes we know it's fake. They know that we know it's fake. We know that they know that we know it's fake, but we all agree to put this to one side for the purposes of an entertaining show. Them showing us it's obviously fake for a joke is okay in small doses if the payoff is worth it but they've overused this trope and it's impacted the show at large

That was my point

Sorry, I wasn't specific enough. In fact, it was just a bad post on my part so apologies for that.

I just don't buy your comparison though. I don't think there is anything like the extent of the suspension of disbelief required for Top Gear than there is for WWE because they serve fundamentally different purpose. One's simply serving the purpose of a joke, one's integral to the credibility of the whole thing - especially to a sizeable chunk of its target audience, which is a very different target audience to Top Gear. Top Gear is almost exclusively pandering to adults and teens, no-one believes everything is real, especially a Nova on its side when that's been a core joke of that particular programme. With the WWE, a great slice of its target audience will believe it's real, and to some intents and purposes - like preventing children from performing tombstone piledrivers, it IS and has to be seen to be real and dangerous.

 

[Damocles]

Sorry, I wasn't specific enough. In fact, it was just a bad post on my part so apologies for that.

I just don't buy your comparison though. I don't think there is anything like the extent of the suspension of disbelief required for Top Gear than there is for WWE because they serve fundamentally different purpose. One's simply serving the purpose of a joke, one's integral to the credibility of the whole thing - especially to a sizeable chunk of its target audience, which is a very different target audience to Top Gear. Top Gear is almost exclusively pandering to adults and teens, no-one believes everything is real, especially a Nova on its side when that's been a core joke of that particular programme. With the WWE, a great slice of its target audience will believe it's real, and to some intents and purposes - like preventing children from performing tombstone piledrivers, it IS and has to be seen to be real and dangerous.

Nobody has thought wrestling is real for a long time and WWE is targeted mainly at the upper teenage crowd who mostly know more kayfabe than I do.

My point wasn't comparing the two shows, I used an analogy of a specific event to make a point about another one.

Again, my point is that Top Gear relies on giving them leeway to do fake things in an entertaining way. Clarkson's sub ten minute lap, the aforementioned camera shot, the constant "mishaps" on camping trips, the jungle escapades, etc, etc. If we actually saw a camera following the team and them all stood planning these events it would take away from the enjoyment of the moment.

I use a different analogy. Bear Grylls uses survival shows and the entertainment value of seeing him eat worms or whatever would be vastly reduced if we heard a Director say "cut" then saw him walk over to a trailer and go for a hot bath with a chicken dinner. We know that he has facilities available to him, has loads of health and safety people around to ensure he doesn't die and nothing that he does is going to actually kill him but we want to forget all of this and enjoy the show.

Top Gear over the past few years has done increasingly outlandish things for the sake of the humour. The problem with this is that it rubs in the idea that it is obviously fake which we don't want to know whilst we're watching the show as then we start noticing all of the other fake things instead of enjoying it.

Actually I think that last paragraph is a decent distillation of my problem