Traitors ?

WRicko said:
Except the argument seemed to be that labour hasn’t moved far enough away from its ideology / to the right to combat immigration
Click to expand...
If its labour voters that genuinely believe that they should be looking into the mirror I think.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Thats what you get when The Elite exclude The People out of politics. We dont have anyone representing us nowadays, no John Prescotts, no Kinnocks, no Heseltines or Paddy Ashdowns, less trade unions, no Jeremy Corbyns, Michael Feet, no Paddy Ashdowns... People who cared for us people, for society. People who wore tweed!

The rich have removed them, one by one they're all gone. The last one that I thought might be our representative, someone who has lived our life, Angela Raynor has now gone too in a media storm.... whipped up by rich people who own the media. They dont like that sort of person, the sort who will rail against the rich, upsets the boat.

Starmer represents that elite for me, his name keeps cropping up in shitty things that have been done in the past. He is a suited professional, the only sort that are allowed to rule us nowadays. I prefered it when there were the options above. They're not for everyone but it was better when there was choice. Y'all nowadays just vote for whomever the media allow you to. We so need a rage against the machine moment.

If you come back with arguments about the virtues or not of those people you have missed the point.
Click to expand...
Shitty things ? You mean prosecuting scumbags ?
 
Jimmieblue said:
Well it was him who wanted to fill the universities with every young person leaving school. Some young people would have been better off without debt and Marxist ideas from ideological lecturers. Hence the lack of skilled British workmen now. I know I am generalising, but when you look what has happened since then, including the Iraq War, he did a lot of harm.
Click to expand...
It might have been wrong for so many to go to uni but the whole indoctrination thing is a myth
 
Jimmieblue said:
Free thinking is encouraged then? Curriculums skewed? I don’t believe it’s a myth.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you didn’t go to University have no evidence even anecdotal.

I can tell you I had no issues as Uni

Even if it was true what would that look like ? secrete Marxism lessons even to those not studying politics be it sport, social work, art, business ? Imagine that people trying to study to get a job in finance learning Marxism. Even people on the left which seem to be out numbered these days are not generally Marxist, communist etc

At best It might be true to say that the young people are too idealistic / left wing

But it’s also true to say things often associate with the right or far right don’t work are not supported by data and science. Or are moral e.g racism, trickle down economics at least in its extreme, Brexit, You can measure outcomes in America vs Europe for health etc so it’s not just pure economics. Or look at the statist approach to economic development initially put in place in East Asia the positive impact that had or compare state owned utilities in Europe to UK
 
WRicko said:
I was speaking with someone this week who has virtually always voted labour a senior law at regional law firm and he was basically saying Keir is a traitor and after a fairly lengthy conversation I am still not sure why.

All I got was immigration and contempt for the working class.

Yet on immigration we have had record deportations a deal with France, hotel reductions and now changes to the rules and much tougher rhetoric.

On things for the working class more broadly we have record investment, record NHS spending, minimum wage rises.

This person thought Nigel was the answer yet he is on the side of Russia and Trump sanctioning the country.

There was a bit of mention of free speech but nothing concrete.

This really worries me not only is it baseless but we need to be disagreeing on policy not personality and assuming the worst of people

How have we got here ?

What’s the solution ?

Why is Keir a traitor ?
Click to expand...

He is being flooded by thousands of comments every day that Keir is a traitor etc, he must feel like you are an alien for having a different view.
 
WRicko said:
Sounds like you didn’t go to University have no evidence even anecdotal.

I can tell you I had no issues as Uni

Even if it was true what would that look like ? secrete Marxism lessons even to those not studying politics be it sport, social work, art, business ? Imagine that people trying to study to get a job in finance learning Marxism. Even people on the left which seem to be out numbered these days are not generally Marxist, communist etc

At best It might be true to say that the young people are too idealistic / left wing

But it’s also true to say things often associate with the right or far right don’t work are not supported by data and science. Or are moral e.g racism, trickle down economics at least in its extreme, Brexit, You can measure outcomes in America vs Europe for health etc so it’s not just pure economics. Or look at the statist approach to economic development initially put in place in East Asia the positive impact that had or compare state owned utilities in Europe to UK
Click to expand...
Judging by your grammar you didn’t go either.
 
TinFoilHat said:
institute.global

Tony Blair Institute for Global Change (TBI)

We are the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change. We work with political leaders around the world to drive change. We do this by advising on strategy, policy and delivery, unlocking the power of technology across all three.
institute.global

Probably this rather than academic.

A lot of labour MPs were selected after "studying" with this organisation.
Click to expand...
So not what you started on about and what about all the very / majority right wing think tanks and now the American and British Christian right wing think tanks foundations etc
 
Jimmieblue said:
Free thinking is encouraged then? Curriculums skewed? I don’t believe it’s a myth.
Click to expand...
Proof ? Is the wonders of the Labour Party being taught in science class ?

And what’s the alternative ? Some things are just wrong should they be taught ? For balance ?
 
Jimmieblue said:
Free thinking is encouraged then? Curriculums skewed? I don’t believe it’s a myth.
Click to expand...

My word, you have clearly never been in an actual university. Take it from somebody with four degrees, it’s damn near impossible to get 18-23 year olds to agree on anything or think a certain way. There’s protests about all kinds of mindless shite on a weekly basis. Students walking out of lectures en masse because they disagree with what the professor is saying. Weird types who sit at the front of the lecture theatre interrogating the lecturer about every little thing they say to try and catch them out or prove them wrong. Free thinking doesn’t need to be encouraged because when you’re at a university filled with intelligent young slightly arrogant people it’s an absolute fucking pain in the arse.

I remember being in a philosophy lecture about free will and about 3 guys stood up halfway through and walked out because they thought it was a funny counter argument to what the lecturer was saying.

No student body sits there passively absorbing and believing everything a lecturer tells them. You are taught to critically question all of your sources, it’s no exaggeration to say that is pretty much the entire fucking point.
 
WRicko said:
I was speaking with someone this week who has virtually always voted labour a senior law at regional law firm and he was basically saying Keir is a traitor and after a fairly lengthy conversation I am still not sure why.

All I got was immigration and contempt for the working class.

Yet on immigration we have had record deportations a deal with France, hotel reductions and now changes to the rules and much tougher rhetoric.

On things for the working class more broadly we have record investment, record NHS spending, minimum wage rises.

This person thought Nigel was the answer yet he is on the side of Russia and Trump sanctioning the country.

There was a bit of mention of free speech but nothing concrete.

This really worries me not only is it baseless but we need to be disagreeing on policy not personality and assuming the worst of people

How have we got here ?

What’s the solution ?

Why is Keir a traitor ?
Click to expand...
We got here because the government has little experience of how to run the country.

First it was the £20billion black hole so the way to claw that back was to withdraw the WFA from pensioners, it was a badly thought out policy.
The labour message was all old age pensioners are rich, some obviously are but many are not.

Second and the most important one is Gaza, he is complicit in the genocide of Gaza by selling arms to Israel, he entertains the Israeli president in number 10, and we still haven’t dismissed the Israeli ambassador or issued sanctions against Israel.

Third the government proscribed Palestine action as terrorist organisation with the consequences of arresting mainly hundreds of OAP’s and disabled persons, wheelchair bound and blind people. I mean it’s all out of proportion for holding up a card with words on.

All in my opinion of course but a government who treats its citizens in this way has clearly moved far from its Labour name tag.

How to win my approval would be to unsubscribe Palestine action and give the police the funds to prosecute the real criminals who damage MOD planes and property arrest the trouble makers and leave the police to carry out the duties with proper funding
 
SkyBlueFlux said:
My word, you have clearly never been in an actual university. Take it from somebody with four degrees, it’s damn near impossible to get 18-23 year olds to agree on anything or think a certain way. There’s protests about all kinds of mindless shite on a weekly basis. Students walking out of lectures en masse because they disagree with what the professor is saying. Weird types who sit at the front of the lecture theatre interrogating the lecturer about every little thing they say to try and catch them out or prove them wrong. Free thinking doesn’t need to be encouraged because when you’re at a university filled with intelligent young slightly arrogant people it’s an absolute fucking pain in the arse.

I remember being in a philosophy lecture about free will and about 3 guys stood up halfway through and walked out because they thought it was a funny counter argument to what the lecturer was saying.

No student body sits there passively absorbing and believing everything a lecturer tells them. You are taught to critically question all of your sources, it’s no exaggeration to say that is pretty much the entire fucking point.
Click to expand...
SkyBlueFlux said:
My word, you have clearly never been in an actual university. Take it from somebody with four degrees, it’s damn near impossible to get 18-23 year olds to agree on anything or think a certain way. There’s protests about all kinds of mindless shite on a weekly basis. Students walking out of lectures en masse because they disagree with what the professor is saying. Weird types who sit at the front of the lecture theatre interrogating the lecturer about every little thing they say to try and catch them out or prove them wrong. Free thinking doesn’t need to be encouraged because when you’re at a university filled with intelligent young slightly arrogant people it’s an absolute fucking pain in the arse.

I remember being in a philosophy lecture about free will and about 3 guys stood up halfway through and walked out because they thought it was a funny counter argument to what the lecturer was saying.

No student body sits there passively absorbing and believing everything a lecturer tells them. You are taught to critically question all of your sources, it’s no exaggeration to say that is pretty much the entire fucking point.
Click to expand...
Point taken, no never been. Failed 11+, so I’ll get my coat.
 
Kirkstall Blue said:
We got here because the government has little experience of how to run the country.

First it was the £20billion black hole so the way to claw that back was to withdraw the WFA from pensioners, it was a badly thought out policy.
The labour message was all old age pensioners are rich, some obviously are but many are not.

Second and the most important one is Gaza, he is complicit in the genocide of Gaza by selling arms to Israel, he entertains the Israeli president in number 10, and we still haven’t dismissed the Israeli ambassador or issued sanctions against Israel.

Third the government proscribed Palestine action as terrorist organisation with the consequences of arresting mainly hundreds of OAP’s and disabled persons, wheelchair bound and blind people. I mean it’s all out of proportion for holding up a card with words on.

All in my opinion of course but a government who treats its citizens in this way has clearly moved far from its Labour name tag.

How to win my approval would be to unsubscribe Palestine action and give the police the funds to prosecute the real criminals who damage MOD planes and property arrest the trouble makers and leave the police to carry out the duties with proper funding
Click to expand...
So there is no criminal element hiding behind the palestinian flag?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top