Trayvon Martin

[Rocket-footed kolarov]

So, who actually can claim 'self defence' then, if you should put it so?? For all Martin knows, Zimmerman was a paedo, maybe a kidnapper.

Could I argue that Martin was 'justifiably' in fear of his safety/ life if he felt the need to, hypothetically, 'confront' Zimmerman as to what his intentions for following him were??

You could yes, lets say Zimmerman confronted Martin physically and with a force that made Martin fear serious injury or death (regardless of whether Zimmerman actually intended to kill him), Martin can respond with equal force or escalate to the point where it was required. However Martin was n't armed with a weapon, so if he responds through unarmed contact he can't exactly claim beating Zimmerman mercilessly to death was justified. If he were to punch Zimmerman and cause him to fall backwards breaking his skull that may me justified self defense. However Martin is n't allowed to confront somebody physically because he feels threatened, if he confronted Zimmerman verbally and GZ responded with violence then he could probably claim self defence. On the actual facts though Martin had bettered Zimmerman in any physical fight and was no longer in danger, if he had carried on GZ would have probably ended up seriously injured or dead, this was the time for TM to stop- he didn't and that is why he is dead.

You're surmising an end result.

There are lots of fist fights in which the loser ends up with a bloody/ broken nose and walks away with their tail between their legs. Those people have cried out on many an occasion and walked away to lick their wounds.

Would you class those situations as 'life threatening'? What now becomes assessed as 'life threatening'?? Receiving a punch? Two? Pushed?

How many times have you stopped handing out a beat down just because you have bettered an opponent for the moment? Would it been fine for that person to shoot you??

It's all very contrived and subjective.

yes it is subjective but that is the point it is irrelevant whether Trayvon Martin actually had the intention of killing GZ or merely beating him to a pulp, if Zimmerman honestly feared for his safety and was deemed by the jury to have been justified in holding such view and exercising force considered reasonable by the jury in that circumstance then he has used justified self defence.

This was n't just a fist fight from the account described in Dazdon's video, Zimmerman was justified in fearing for his life because TM was smashing his head against concrete and yes it would be okay for somebody to shoot me if I behaved in a manner comparable to TM. He was n't entitled to hand out an ass whipping from the facts of the case, I merely put a hypothetical situation out there if Martin feared for his safety he could have restrained Zimmerman and taken his weapon off him. GZ might be a prick but he is not a murderer (in a legal, or injustice sense), if what is in the video is true then GZ hardly had the choice to use the least possible force he was danger of severe head injuries and discharging his weapon from point blank range was always likely to be lethal.

 

[Bigga]

You could yes, lets say Zimmerman confronted Martin physically and with a force that made Martin fear serious injury or death (regardless of whether Zimmerman actually intended to kill him), Martin can respond with equal force or escalate to the point where it was required. However Martin was n't armed with a weapon, so if he responds through unarmed contact he can't exactly claim beating Zimmerman mercilessly to death was justified. If he were to punch Zimmerman and cause him to fall backwards breaking his skull that may me justified self defense. However Martin is n't allowed to confront somebody physically because he feels threatened, if he confronted Zimmerman verbally and GZ responded with violence then he could probably claim self defence. On the actual facts though Martin had bettered Zimmerman in any physical fight and was no longer in danger, if he had carried on GZ would have probably ended up seriously injured or dead, this was the time for TM to stop- he didn't and that is why he is dead.

You're surmising an end result.

There are lots of fist fights in which the loser ends up with a bloody/ broken nose and walks away with their tail between their legs. Those people have cried out on many an occasion and walked away to lick their wounds.

Would you class those situations as 'life threatening'? What now becomes assessed as 'life threatening'?? Receiving a punch? Two? Pushed?

How many times have you stopped handing out a beat down just because you have bettered an opponent for the moment? Would it been fine for that person to shoot you??

It's all very contrived and subjective.

yes it is subjective but that is the point it is irrelevant whether Trayvon Martin actually had the intention of killing GZ or merely beating him to a pulp, if Zimmerman honestly feared for his safety and was deemed by the jury to have been justified in holding such view and exercising force considered reasonable by the jury in that circumstance then he has used justified self defence.

This was n't just a fist fight from the account described in Dazdon's video, Zimmerman was justified in fearing for his life because TM was smashing his head against concrete and yes it would be okay for somebody to shoot me if I behaved in a manner comparable to TM. He was n't entitled to hand out an ass whipping from the facts of the case, I merely put a hypothetical situation out there if Martin feared for his safety he could have restrained Zimmerman and taken his weapon off him. GZ might be a prick but he is not a murderer (in a legal, or injustice sense), if what is in the video is true then GZ hardly had the choice to use the least possible force he was danger of severe head injuries and discharging his weapon from point blank range was always likely to be lethal.

That video surmises for its conclusion. Entirely presupposes how the injuries were caused and thus why a death occurred. As far as I know,not a single witness saw them tangle and fall to the ground. The head injury could have been done then. John Good describes Martin's hands as together in a downward motion, yet the video guy motions single punches.

I am not saying that Martin did not throw a punch, but I suggest he threw it before they were on the ground, enabling the straddle position.

I have no problem with this.

This is my problem:

Are you seeing what I am seeing??

The injuries are not consistent with pure head trauma off concrete, never mind being 'slammed repeatedly'!! I am wondering where all the lumps are, the face swelling, the shiner, etc. It looks to me those injuries, to the back of the head, are more consistent with being held down during a scuffle.

I injured a guy, in school, who had me in a choke hold headlock, by reaching up blind and shoving his head into a seriously hard object 3 times. He let go and when I could breathe again, he had a lump the size of an egg on the side of his head.

I couldn't get proper leverage to achieve that result, so how do 'punches reigning down on Zimmerman' not produce a mere bump to the back of his skull...??

Sorry, just from personal experience, I don't hold this 'feared for his life' issue as genuine.

Just my opinion...

 

[mcmanus]

To be honest I thought in the States white folk were scared of blacks and Hispanics in similar measure.