UAP/UFO thread - Non-Human Intelligences

Johnny Mars Bar said:
Oi, no need to be a rude wanker.

I haven’t trawled the thread no, just saw it pop up and expressed my opinion. I haven’t studied physics since GCSEs so I am no expert, not claimed to be!

If he’s posted something with more expertise I’ll gladly read it but I don’t by default trawl through thousands of posts on every thread I post on, I have other things in my life to do.
Click to expand...
I thought your post was fine and equally valid as any on here.

The truth is nobody knows much about the universe. We only understand about 5%, based on observable matter, the rest is thought to consist of dark matter and dark energy… we only discovered this about 20 years ago!
Although our physics has had major breakthroughs, there is still a lot that isn’t understood. We only know about four forces although the standard model can only explain three of them! and then we have quantum physics, which is strange and nobody seems to understand very well. We know of four dimensions but suspect there are more…we think the Big Bang and universal expansion is a likely explanation of how our universe was born but there are other theories that propose alternatives….

So you’re in good company mate, cos nobody knows that much about any of it.
 
You are out with your dates on dark matter.
The term dark matter was coined in 1933 by Fritz Zwicky of the California Institute of Technology to describe the unseen matter needed to explain the fast-moving galaxies in the Coma Cluster. In the 1970s, Vera Rubin of the Carnegie Institution found evidence for dark matter in her research on galaxy rotation.
So at least 90 years ago to be theorised and 50 years ago for evidence.
It’s existence is still only inferred from observation of phenomena though with no actual proof.
 
DenisLawBackHeel74 said:
I thought your post was fine and equally valid as any on here.

The truth is nobody knows much about the universe. We only understand about 5%, based on observable matter, the rest is thought to consist of dark matter and dark energy… we only discovered this about 20 years ago!
Although our physics has had major breakthroughs, there is still a lot that isn’t understood. We only know about four forces although the standard model can only explain three of them! and then we have quantum physics, which is strange and nobody seems to understand very well. We know of four dimensions but suspect there are more…we think the Big Bang and universal expansion is a likely explanation of how our universe was born but there are other theories that propose alternatives….

So you’re in good company mate, cos nobody knows that much about any of it.
Click to expand...
This problem is why I think there are no aliens or at least certainly not aliens in the scope of our existence.

The chances of us or any other species ever understanding the universe enough are extremely slim because there is just too much to do and not enough time to do it. We invented mathematics for example and that forms our core understanding of everything. Physics however must fit in with mathematics and what if it's wrong?

The answers to these questions may have already been found by another species on another planet but if that species was bothered about Earth and could overcome the impossible realities of getting here then they'd be here already.

There is also the problem that life is rare because space itself is extremely violent and history proves that civilisations and species don't have a long lifespan, often around millions of years for larger mammals. Obviously there is a major risk of us killing ourselves but it only takes a huge asteroid, gamma event or something like that and we're done.

The irony is that the best possible way of finding solutions to these problems fast is to perhaps invent a more superior intelligence to our own. However, humans were once that superior intelligence and look what we're doing. If a more superior intelligence came along then history only tells us that they'd probably kill us all....

I suppose this just proves that we're not here forever, we will never understand everything so just enjoy it whilst it lasts. :)
 
inbetween said:
This problem is why I think there are no aliens or at least certainly not aliens in the scope of our existence.

The chances of us or any other species ever understanding the universe enough are extremely slim because there is just too much to do and not enough time to do it. We invented mathematics for example and that forms our core understanding of everything. Physics however must fit in with mathematics and what if it's wrong?

The answers to these questions may have already been found by another species on another planet but if that species was bothered about Earth and could overcome the impossible realities of getting here then they'd be here already.

There is also the problem that life is rare because space itself is extremely violent and history proves that civilisations and species don't have a long lifespan, often around millions of years for larger mammals. Obviously there is a major risk of us killing ourselves but it only takes a huge asteroid, gamma event or something like that and we're done.

The irony is that the best possible way of finding solutions to these problems fast is to perhaps invent a more superior intelligence to our own. However, humans were once that superior intelligence and look what we're doing. If a more superior intelligence came along then history only tells us that they'd probably kill us all....

I suppose this just proves that we're not here forever, we will never understand everything so just enjoy it whilst it lasts. :)
Click to expand...
The only reason I could see any intelligent life coming here is for our resources, we offer nothing else that I can see, obviously not as intelligent as them and let’s face it if they have been watching us and monitoring us they can see how fucked up we are, imagine turning up and the orange gibbon is in charge if the so called free world and on the other side you have despots oh wait they are the same bloody thing these days.
 
ZenHalfTimeCrock said:
Interesting book on UFO's and 'Non-human Intelligences'.


View attachment 138209



View attachment 138207

Interview with Pasulka:

europeanconservative.com

UFOs and Aliens Are (Probably) Not What You Think: An Interview with Diana Walsh Pasulka

"After this research I had a much more visceral, almost literal, sense of religion and religious practice."
europeanconservative.com europeanconservative.com
Click to expand...
What's your take on Jacques Vallée?
I know a few who mention his take on the UFO/UAP (his character was placed in Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind) and these are from quite critical peeps.
Clearly an intelligent individaul but I'd imagine has pocketed some decent dollar from his books on the subject.
Less physical 'nuts and bolts' guy (multi dimensional theories) although he claims to have a piece of 'alien' material.

My take on this is this (similar other opinions on this thread) is that there really isn't any 'phenomena' to see.
I've mentioned meta-bunk (Mick West) before and I don't believe them to be professional sceptics, more presenting a more sober Occam's razor perspective.

SETI (and those myriad telescopes pointing in all directions) will, I'm sure, let us know if anything ET is picked up.
The rest seems to be some kind of sci fi industry grift (and I grew up with loving those UFO picture books as a kid).
 
somapop said:
What's your take on Jacques Vallée?
I know a few who mention his take on the UFO/UAP (his character was placed in Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind) and these are from quite critical peeps.
Clearly an intelligent individaul but I'd imagine has pocketed some decent dollar from his books on the subject.
Less physical 'nuts and bolts' guy (multi dimensional theories) although he claims to have a piece of 'alien' material.

My take on this is this (similar other opinions on this thread) is that there really isn't any 'phenomena' to see.
I've mentioned meta-bunk (Mick West) before and I don't believe them to be professional sceptics, more presenting a more sober Occam's razor perspective.

SETI (and those myriad telescopes pointing in all directions) will, I'm sure, let us know if anything ET is picked up.
The rest seems to be some kind of sci fi industry grift (and I grew up with loving those UFO picture books as a kid).
Click to expand...

Vallée is very good friends with Pasulka and he features prominently in American Cosmic (and the other title if I remember rightly). As Close Encounters has been on TV a few times recently, whenever Francois Truffaut appears on screen it makes me think of him.

What's interesting about these books is that you learn of prominent scientists who are leaders in their own fields but who are also the equivalent of homosexuals who were afraid to come out of the closet back in the day. They take these phenomena seriously but tend to speak under conditions of anonymity, fearing the damage to their credibility if their identities are revealed.

There is also a fascinating discussion of some possible physical evidence of visitation (which I won't say anything more about - it would be too much of a spoiler).

On the SETI thing, I wonder if even advanced civilisations end up destroying themselves or are destroyed by some cosmic calamity before they get the chance to achieve interstellar travel?

The pan-dimensional beings thing is another fascinating theory but - again - I don't know what to make of it. I had come across it previously when I heard of people encountering insectoid aliens whilst under the influence of dimethytryptamine.

How I got into this myself was when I came across an older book about UFO's and alien abductions called Dark White. It was authored by a sceptical academic writer called Jim Schnabel back in the early 90's.

Later, I looked at some UFO religions like Heaven's Gate and the United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors (founded by Dwight York - not the ex-footballer!) when teaching Year 9's about New Religious Movements when I was a secondary school teacher. The pupils also got introduced to the wonderful Susan Blackmore, who thinks that sleep paralysis and unusual temporal lobe activity account for the feeling that there's a 'Grey' in the room with you. Then, of course, there was David Icke and his alien shape-shifting lizard theory to look at.

More recently, a friend's daughter chose to write about the Raëlism for her BA in Philosophy. So it was helping her a bit with that which got me into this whole area again.

Then I found that there were academics in the fields of Religious Studies and Philosophy, like Pasulka and Jeffrey Kripal (see the link below) who had started to take the whole UFO phenomenon seriously again. Kripal has collaborated with Whitley Streiber, for example.

www.theguardian.com

Philosophy professor Jeffrey J Kripal: ‘Thinking about a UFO as some kind of extraterrestrial spaceship is naive’

The academic and author draws on quantum mechanics, English romantic philosophy and mysticism to explore a new theory of mind that embraces the paranormal
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

What do I personally think of all this?

Fuck knows.

But it's fun to read about and those two Pasulka books were very entertaining.

Still never watched The X Files. Might need to put that right.
 
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