UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[55yr old teenager]

I have read this thread daily since it started
Must admit a lot of it goes over my head. Is there any chance UEFA have something up their sleeve that City are not aware, which is why UEFA slapped us with the 2 year ban and fine?

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

I think any vote is purely guesswork at this point. I think it's normal with things like this to start from a position of bullish confidence and slowly dial back the closer you get to the match (or case in this case).

I won't tell you which way I voted because it was just a guess, but it did not involve exoneration of any kind.

You’re right. It is of course guesswork on my part as it is everyone else’s. I just think if we had evidence (presumably in the shape of follow up emails to the one I mention) that explained or undermined the one I refer to above, as published by Der Spiegel, then we’d have shown it at the AC stage (and perhaps we did just that, although it seems unlikely to me personally) rather than have the club’s name dragged through another 7 shades of shit by hanging onto it as a potential ‘reveal’ at CAS. In the event that we have only subsequent emails that show Sheikh Mansour did then route money to the club in his capacity as the ADUG shareholder, then I think we were right to withhold that info from the AC (if that is indeed what we did - and again I’m just guessing), rather than fall into a potential Cummings style trap whereby Der Spiegel has hung onto those subsequent emails in the hope of catching us out in a lie, but ultimately I think providing such proof is what this case will hang on. I have no legal qualification whatsoever, but pinning all our hopes on a lack of due process on UEFA’s part, seems a risky gambit to me on a case with such a high media profile, and Qatari, rag and dipper stooges banging a very noisy drum for a conviction. I just think that under such scrutiny, if push comes to the shove and we have no other evidence to demonstrate our actual innocence, CAS will not want to declare us innocent on a legal technicality, and will vote our case down. I hope we have something more

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

But why would a large organization like UEFA build up a complete semi fabricated case, handing out a very harsh punishment if they very well know it wouldn't pass CAS? What is there to win for them? Except for damaging City's reputation perhaps, but we weren't exactly the most popular kids in class anyway. I simply cannot see what is there for them to gain by doing this, knowing it's all futile.Therefore I expect them to have at least more than a couple of stolen mails from a media article.

Never understimate how stupid UEFA officials are. They have plenty of previous for making stupid decisions. People who are corrupt often become arrogant and complacent. When Platini was at UEFA he thought he could accept a £1m payment with no contract or receipt from Blatter for work he had allegedly done 10 years earlier. It all happened within weeks of him backing the Qatar World Cup bid and he thought no one would question it.
It's hard to understand this sort of mindset but I have come across a lot of corrupt people in my career. They all have one thing in common. They think they are untouchable.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Wasn't it the case that the IC did not look at Citys irrefutable evidence and if that is the case they did not pass that evidence onto the AC to consider. My view remains the same as it has always been, that City are playing the long game and if they get cleared at CAS its a bonus,

We don’t know what the AC were given by the IC. It’s all guesswork, including mine

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

As I’ve said before powerful individuals and powerful organisations when they lose their sense of perspective or get overly obsessed with something - Can do some crazy whacky stuff. I point you in the direction of the quacks and conspiracy theorists presently having more influence in the White House than established scientists !

Spot-on. Look at Trump. Whatever you think about his politics he has been a very smart political operator. But the publicity stunt at the church was self-destructive madness. The jury is out but so far it looks like it has backfired badly.

 

[WestGorton]

I feel confident if City are but worry about the pressure CAS will be under from the crooks at UEFA like Gill.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

This is exactly the point, which I've made before, about context. If Pearce's reply implicated ADUG in any way. Der Spiegel would have printed it, assuming they had it. If Pearce's reply said something like "This is nothing to do with ADUG. Etihad will be providing all the money" then that doesn't exactly help the picture that Der Spiegel were clearly trying to paint. So either they didn't have the reply (which seems unlikely) or else they did, and deliberately failed to print it.

But even if Pearce's reply said "Sure. Etihad are broke but I bet Sheikh Mansour will pay it out of his own pocket if we ask" It might cause red faces at the club but it isn't proof of any breach of FFP or anything else. What proof can UEFA have, compared to our accounts?

 

[bluemanchester]

We don’t know what the AC were given by the IC. It’s all guesswork, including mine

I agree we are all guessing and hoping. Reminds me of the old days when all we had was hope then that deserted us as well, till 2008. I thought the IC passed onto the AC the evidence that they had considered which would not have included Citys dossier of irrefutable evidence which they had not looked at. Why would they pass on something they had not considered. Getting
dizzy with it now so in times like this Im off to the joke thread.

 

[BillyShears]

You’re right. It is of course guesswork on my part as it is everyone else’s. I just think if we had evidence (presumably in the shape of follow up emails to the one I mention) that explained or undermined the one I refer to above, as published by Der Spiegel, then we’d have shown it at the AC stage (and perhaps we did just that, although it seems unlikely to me personally) rather than have the club’s name dragged through another 7 shades of shit by hanging onto it as a potential ‘reveal’ at CAS. In the event that we have only subsequent emails that show Sheikh Mansour did then route money to the club in his capacity as the ADUG shareholder, then I think we were right to withhold that info from the AC (if that is indeed what we did - and again I’m just guessing), rather than fall into a potential Cummings style trap whereby Der Spiegel has hung onto those subsequent emails in the hope of catching us out in a lie, but ultimately I think providing such proof is what this case will hang on. I have no legal qualification whatsoever, but pinning all our hopes on a lack of due process on UEFA’s part, seems a risky gambit to me on a case with such a high media profile, and Qatari, rag and dipper stooges banging a very noisy drum for a conviction. I just think that under such scrutiny, if push comes to the shove and we have no other evidence to demonstrate our actual innocence, CAS will not want to declare us innocent on a legal technicality, and will vote our case down. I hope we have something more

Actually, on the very last point I disagree, and this may well be the crux of everything. IMO CAS have to rule on the rules, not on the emotions that the emails can evoke in people. The question is are UEFA within their own rules in a) using the leaks to re-try a previously settled case AND b) if they are, do the leaks prove clearly that the UEFA's rules were broken.

Khaldoon and Simon Pearce are not little guys. Soriano and Begiristain are little guys. And the confidence and bullishness isn't coming from the little guys. Khaldoon and Pearce simply wouldn't take that stance without strong advice that they were on solid ground. The ramifications of being wrong are pretty severe on every level. It's not like they're privately saying to the players "this could go either way" - every single one of them has been told that the club will be 100% vindicated. That's a balls out strategy if you're playing with a weak hand.

 

[Bald fraud]

I've gone worst case, 2 year ban upheld.

Genuinely think we are up against a mafia here that will not stop until they have completely fucked us over.

Pretty much how I feel they want us gone and never to come back