UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

My guess is that we've done a deal that involves throwing Yves Leterme under a big, heavy bus.

And if it’s done on Merseyside, nobody will ever be arrested for it either.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

The club has been adamant about this from the off and their public pronouncements have displayed a clear confidence. Hopefully this is indeed backed up by irrefutable evidence that we didn't break rules.

I can't shake the feeling that both sides are playing some games here. I really don't know exactly what dark forces are working against us and whether they go to the extent that many believe. If City have the evidence they believe and sufficient confidence in the independence of CAS then I would expect them to be confident, so it is good to hear that they genuinely seem to be.

As ever, thanks for sharing.

I have not the slightest doubt that it’s absolutely to the extent many of us believe, and I hope the club is setting out its legal stall in the expectation that Gill, Henry, Rummenigge and the rest of the spiteful bastards will stop at nothing in their attempts to derail us.

 

[Plays By Sense Of Smell]

To be honest, the last few years have been like watching a slowed down version of Suits.

Gripping stuff, especially as we all have such heavy emotional investment.

If we think of City being run by a combination of Harvey Specter (Khaldoon) with the clout of Tony Giannopolous (Sheikh Mansoor), whatever happens, I’m sure we will have multiple contingencies - so let’s enjoy the ride!

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

That's a good question. The info was passed after the revamp details, and was asserted a few days beforehand.

Cheers TH. Would be interesting to know then if that confidence persists undiminished, despite the CL revamp announcement

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Same thing happened to Chelsea when city were taken over. Need a new scapegoat !

I just hope we don’t become the hypocrites that Chelsea did, and join in trying to exclude the bar-codes.

 

[SilverFox2]

We should want the best person for the job irrespective of club allegiances. Of course, if that person is unable to split their allegiance from their professionalism, then they're not the best person for the job

I think so too.
We dont give second thought to player trandfer allegiances

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Cheers TH. Would be interesting to know then if that confidence persists undiminished, despite the CL revamp announcement

I do think sometimes people think a little too kindly of our top brass?

They are a class act but they are also money making machines.

We have always craved a seat at the top table and Soriano is a little too keen for that.

It might surprise many in football, but Khaldoon would love a salary cap like some sports in America.

Hence to say, the people round the rest of the table aren't listening.

 

[BobbyBoy]

This is the most interesting thread on any football forum. Over 2700 of pages of material where the mood routinely swings from one end of the spectrum to the next. There have been weeks of gloom followed by weeks of pure confidence where the discussion skips past the CAS case and straight into retribution and world dominance.

It will make for a Netflix series one day, the old saying goes history is written by the victors.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

Some may want to make it mutually exclusive my info must directly be weighted on the eventual verdict?

However, I wanted to share an extremely positive piece of information that was relayed to me recently - guaranteed in fact.

Without ever doubting the people in question asserting it.

That's all - good news, when all we seem to hear is bad news these days.

Enough for me to want to share, but also enough for me to be very guarded about trying to supply additional info in a bid to fill in certain blanks and put a few more minds at ease.

It goes beyond Soriano and his in-house PR piece.

The reasons for that, I clearly wouldn't know, outside these people in the room.

Please take it in the genuine, sometimes misguided attempt to share what I might be told.

The info is solid, certainly in terms of a reason to feel happy about it.

That's great thank you for sharing it.

 

[Bill the Blue]

We would all like our pound of flesh, but whether we get jam on it, might still not be enough for some.

I appreciate that Tolm but it's been such a long, drawn out, negative set of charges that have hung over us for what seems like an age now,.

This situation has only gone to further fuel the media and TV attacks on our club which have reached frenzied levels at times..

However, UEFA dropping their charges against us and retracting their threat of a ban, based on the strong case our club has, will be most welcome..!

Personally though, I would like to see one or 2 of the people who thought the charges against our club were justified enough to fine us millions and ban us for 2 years being held to account rather than remaining faceless..

If the charges brought against us are dropped, I would also like City to instagate an investigation into the PL clubs who wrote to UEFA supporting their charges without obviously being in possession of the full facts from both City and UEFA..


I'm probably asking for too much..!

 

[SilverFox2]

I do think sometimes people think a little too kindly of our top brass?

They are a class act but they are also money making machines.

We have always craved a seat at the top table and Soriano is a little too keen for that.

It might surprise many in football, but Khaldoon would love a salary cap like some sports in America.

Hence to say, the people round the rest of the table aren't listening.

I suppose as long as they continue maximising profits they will have a degree of autonomy from our owners.
No doubt they examine different ways to maximise that profit but as you say ADUG is primarily a money making machine not overshadowed by a dominating megalomaniac.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

I appreciate that Tolm but it's been such a long, drawn out, negative set of charges that have hung over us for what seems like an age now,.

This situation has only gone to further fuel the media and TV attacks on our club which have reached frenzied levels at times..

However, UEFA dropping their charges against us and retracting their threat of a ban, based on the strong case our club has, will be most welcome..!

Personally though, I would like to see one or 2 of the people who thought the charges against our club were justified enough to fine us millions and ban us for 2 years being held to account rather than remaining faceless..

If the charges brought against us are dropped, I would also like City to instagate an investigation into the PL clubs who wrote to UEFA supporting their charges without obviously being in possession of the full facts from both City and UEFA..


I'm probably asking for too much..!

You aren't. I want heads on spikes!

 

[The perfect fumble]

ADUG is primarily a money making machine not overshadowed by a dominating megalomaniac.

I disagree, ADUG is not primarily a money making machine, it is primarily concerned with asset-growth maximization.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

I believe that those involved at the club have always been very confident that City have not breached FFP at any time and that the club has evidence to prove this beyond any doubt at all, reasonable or otherwise. So, what has brought about this transition to a mood of "more than supreme confidence"? This is pure speculation but I hope it is not my sky blue imagination running completely wild.

It could simply be knowledge from reliable and informed sources that we have not lost the case, but have in fact won it. In 2014 an "acquittal" would probably have satisfied the club, the board and the owner since running a club which could sustain itself at the highest level after a period of heavy investment was always Sheikh Mansour's avowed aim. It is impossible that Sheikh Mansour had not discussed his plans and UEFA's plans for FFP with UEFA and common ground found. It was the unethical fiddling of the regulations on wages which destroyed City's belief in UEFA's good faith, reliability and basic honesty. Belief that UEFA would conduct itself according to ethical standards was, I suspect, destroyed beyond repair and a furious City agreed reluctantly to "take the pinch" as long as the settlement was once and for all, final. Years later we found this was another case of UEFA's duplicity and dishonesty. This time UEFA went for the nuclear option and a two year CL ban based on an opaque process in the IC littered with leaks and bad tempered outbursts from M. Leterme who seemed to see the IC only as a vehicle for finding any evidence at all for the already decided guilty verdict. The AC ratified the verdict and put the icing and the cherry on the cake with the most severe sentence ever handed out. So I think even Chappie might agree that a simple dropping of the charges would not satisfy those involved at City at all.

So, what would? I think PB is absolutely right that the club want to see the back of Leterme who has shown himself totally unfit for the role he had to play in the IC. When financial regulation was first broached by Platini City must have found proposals which limited investment in the game very strange indeed but must have felt that they were not an obstacle to plans for the club. They must know now that they are meant to be a recurring barrier to the fulfilment of the owner's ambitions for the club and this is how Leterme appeared to see them. But City must have realised a long time ago that many of those at UEFA and on the periphery see that body as no more than a body to push their own club's interest - everyone on here knows who they are - and I suspect City want to see the back of them and probably the back of FFP as well. CAS can certainly quash the ban and the fine, but I cannot see how it can deliver enough of what City want to keep us happy.

This is where Tolm's post on the timing of his evidence may be interesting; it was asserted a few days before details of the revamp but only passed on a few days after. Now, there are at least two major rivalries in world club football today; firstly between those clubs which have dominated the game for the last 30 years and those newly wealthy clubs who want a more equitable access to the higher echelons of the club game. This is often seen as a struggle between clubs with very wealthy owners and those with much longer established revenue streams. The other is between UEFA and FIFA for the lion's share of revenue in club football which appeared to be capable of limitless growth, at least until Covid-19 struck. Now, City's vision dwarfs that of other clubs and I have often wondered how long it would take City to teach UEFA the lesson that European clubs don't actually need UEFA. FIFA could organise a genuinely global club tournament which would be a real alternative to Agnelli's closed shop and City would be a major catch for such a competition Clubs choosing this FIFA version need not lose out on prize money. If there was real progress on such a scheme as a result of Agnelli's proposals...

 

[SilverFox2]

I disagree, ADUG is not primarily a money making machine, it is primarily concerned with asset-growth maximization.

I'm sure you are right but City are now adding to profits that allow the conversion of profits into similar money making assets.
Merely an extension of our AD owners main job with oil money.

 

[domalino]

I do think sometimes people think a little too kindly of our top brass?

They are a class act but they are also money making machines.

We have always craved a seat at the top table and Soriano is a little too keen for that.

It might surprise many in football, but Khaldoon would love a salary cap like some sports in America.

Hence to say, the people round the rest of the table aren't listening.

Khaldoon wanting a salary cap is the most predictable thing I've ever heard.

Hes always been about spending smart, and if everyone were subject to a limit, and spent the same, hed back himself to spend the smartest money and get the most out of it.

Not without reason.

 

[SilverFox2]

Khaldoon wanting a salary cap is the most predictable thing I've ever heard.

Hes always been about spending smart, and if everyone were subject to a limit, and spent the same, hed back himself to spend the smartest money and get the most out of it.

Not without reason.

We already limit our transfer spend so finding a way to limit wage demands seems another way to control costs.

 

[KS55]

I disagree, ADUG is not primarily a money making machine, it is primarily concerned with asset-growth maximization.

ADUG is an investment fund, so its overwhelming purpose is to make money. Such a fund can make money in two ways: divis from profits of companies invested in And/Or capital growth of those vehicles. It depends where the vehicles are in their life cycle and what their strategies are. See US digi businesses which sold for or are worth billions while sitting on large accumulated losses.
CFG's strategy appears to be: buy a medium sized club, invest heavily in personnel and facilities, grow the club to the point where it is profitable, let it stand on its own to feet, move on to next club project and invest there.
Ultimately, when CFG reaches its optimal size, the P&L will be positive and the capital value will dwarf the investment made. Will ADUG be tempted to sell then? Probably not, as CFG provides a bridge to new markets for goods and services for all Abu Dhabi businesses.
But, let us be clear: CFG and its subsidiaries are there to make money for ADUG. That is healthy for City, as it ensures our future.

 

[Chappie]

I believe that those involved at the club have always been very confident that City have not breached FFP at any time and that the club has evidence to prove this beyond any doubt at all, reasonable or otherwise. So, what has brought about this transition to a mood of "more than supreme confidence"? This is pure speculation but I hope it is not my sky blue imagination running completely wild.

It could simply be knowledge from reliable and informed sources that we have not lost the case, but have in fact won it. In 2014 an "acquittal" would probably have satisfied the club, the board and the owner since running a club which could sustain itself at the highest level after a period of heavy investment was always Sheikh Mansour's avowed aim. It is impossible that Sheikh Mansour had not discussed his plans and UEFA's plans for FFP with UEFA and common ground found. It was the unethical fiddling of the regulations on wages which destroyed City's belief in UEFA's good faith, reliability and basic honesty. Belief that UEFA would conduct itself according to ethical standards was, I suspect, destroyed beyond repair and a furious City agreed reluctantly to "take the pinch" as long as the settlement was once and for all, final. Years later we found this was another case of UEFA's duplicity and dishonesty. This time UEFA went for the nuclear option and a two year CL ban based on an opaque process in the IC littered with leaks and bad tempered outbursts from M. Leterme who seemed to see the IC only as a vehicle for finding any evidence at all for the already decided guilty verdict. The AC ratified the verdict and put the icing and the cherry on the cake with the most severe sentence ever handed out. So I think even Chappie might agree that a simple dropping of the charges would not satisfy those involved at City at all.

So, what would? I think PB is absolutely right that the club want to see the back of Leterme who has shown himself totally unfit for the role he had to play in the IC. When financial regulation was first broached by Platini City must have found proposals which limited investment in the game very strange indeed but must have felt that they were not an obstacle to plans for the club. They must know now that they are meant to be a recurring barrier to the fulfilment of the owner's ambitions for the club and this is how Leterme appeared to see them. But City must have realised a long time ago that many of those at UEFA and on the periphery see that body as no more than a body to push their own club's interest - everyone on here knows who they are - and I suspect City want to see the back of them and probably the back of FFP as well. CAS can certainly quash the ban and the fine, but I cannot see how it can deliver enough of what City want to keep us happy.

This is where Tolm's post on the timing of his evidence may be interesting; it was asserted a few days before details of the revamp but only passed on a few days after. Now, there are at least two major rivalries in world club football today; firstly between those clubs which have dominated the game for the last 30 years and those newly wealthy clubs who want a more equitable access to the higher echelons of the club game. This is often seen as a struggle between clubs with very wealthy owners and those with much longer established revenue streams. The other is between UEFA and FIFA for the lion's share of revenue in club football which appeared to be capable of limitless growth, at least until Covid-19 struck. Now, City's vision dwarfs that of other clubs and I have often wondered how long it would take City to teach UEFA the lesson that European clubs don't actually need UEFA. FIFA could organise a genuinely global club tournament which would be a real alternative to Agnelli's closed shop and City would be a major catch for such a competition Clubs choosing this FIFA version need not lose out on prize money. If there was real progress on such a scheme as a result of Agnelli's proposals...

Let me make myself clear , I want them nailing every single one of them.
They have dragged our name and reputation through the mud ,even if cleared that will stick.
I wrote at the time we should not have taken the hit and should have gone to the courts and sorted it
I have watched and read everything on here about the case,I have seen the forum go from "highs"on info supplied to " lows " when UEFA change the goal posts.
Poster post in good faith and I believe that we have a cast iron case but I dont trust the cartel and the bandits that work for them.
The only outcome which is acceptable to me is total exoneration and for the hypocrites to be exposed and banished from the game
Because if that doesn't happen they will return for another go

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

ADUG is an investment fund, so its overwhelming purpose is to make money. Such a fund can make money in two ways: divis from profits of companies invested in And/Or capital growth of those vehicles. It depends where the vehicles are in their life cycle and what their strategies are. See US digi businesses which sold for or are worth billions while sitting on large accumulated losses.
CFG's strategy appears to be: buy a medium sized club, invest heavily in personnel and facilities, grow the club to the point where it is profitable, let it stand on its own to feet, move on to next club project and invest there.
Ultimately, when CFG reaches its optimal size, the P&L will be positive and the capital value will dwarf the investment made. Will ADUG be tempted to sell then? Probably not, as CFG provides a bridge to new markets for goods and services for all Abu Dhabi businesses.
But, let us be clear: CFG and its subsidiaries are there to make money for ADUG. That is healthy for City, as it ensures our future.

This is spot-on. It makes me laugh when fools in the media spout on about City "being bankrolled by a sugar daddy" or being "state funded" In fact it is the precise opposite. Sheikh Mansour has made huge profits on his investments in the UK in the finance and sports sectors. He has made huge profits on his property investments in the City of Manchester. City are the flagship for the group and ADUG is doing very well out of the deal.