UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[RNBlue]

Sad but true. It is not just the sports pages either.

in the last 20(ish) years the British media have stopped reporting on the news and instead become the generator of news and thus become the influencers of social and political opinion for/to the public.

 

[petrusha]

On the question of re-opening the old agreement, I'm guessing that UEFA will contend that we deceived them with our submissions and with the accounts that they audited. That might help them, but they would probably need to convince the panel of the deception as a first step. If that failed, the part of the 'charges' relating to those years would fall.

I assume so. We don't know whether there's a provision in the settlement agreement expressly stating that it can be reopened if new information emerges or whether UEFA are relying, in the absence of such an express provision, on some other doctrine under Swiss law.

 

[bluwes]

I assume so. We don't know whether there's a provision in the settlement agreement expressly stating that it can be reopened if new information emerges or whether UEFA are relying, in the absence of such an express provision, on some other doctrine under Swiss law.

seem to remember Stefan on the 93:20 podcast saying that there was no provision. Anyone else recall it

 

[spiny]

Always interested to compare the news as reported in so called less developed countries compared with the so called developed countries like the UK now driven by agendas and clickbait.

I stopped buying newspapers 20 years ago and ignore radio and television news. In the past, these were a must for everyone but those days are long gone. The clicks dictate the narrative as viewers ansd sales plummet. As said so many times on here, the reporting on FFP has been despicable apart from Martin Samuel.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Always like reading your posts

I cant see City letting Ceferin see what they have got with all the leaks within UEFA. My view on our owner and directors is that nothing gets out that they dont want out. Informing him we have irrefutable evidence maybe, but not going into detail because of the risk of leaks. Unless, unless he is briefing City. Even I am going round in circles now, must go for a lie down in the sun.

I don't think we'd have shown him our evidence related to the case specifically but more what we've got on other clubs. If that was the case then we'd have said to him that he's backing the wrong horse if he's on the side of the cartel.

 

[petrusha]

I thought he said that, based on the case law in CAS in which provisions of other settlement agreements have been discussed, there's been no evidence of any of them reserve's UEFA's right to revisit in certain circumstances. But if the full texts are confidential, you can never be sure.

I had a discussion with him on this thread, sometime way back, about the possibility that there's no express provision, in which case UEFA might be relying on the Swiss contract law doctrine of good faith on this point. He thought that would be quite a big hurdle to overcome and I suspect he's right, but of course there may be facts of the case of which we're unaware that mean the usual position doesn't apply here.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Jose Narciso da Cunha Rodrigues

The very same judge which was pissed with Uefa for letting Paris off the hook, so decided to make sure we were found guilty.

 

[nmc]

On the question of re-opening the old agreement, I'm guessing that UEFA will contend that we deceived them with our submissions and with the accounts that they audited. That might help them, but they would probably need to convince the panel of the deception as a first step. If that failed, the part of the 'charges' relating to those years would fall.

Of course if our accounts have deceived UEFA they have probably also deceived our auditors so our Directors might also face criminal charges. UEFA need to understand the seriousness of their allegations.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

No, I dont think so, more a case of slack auditing if we dld indeed try to pull the wool. But I don't think we did, otherwise Soriano and Khaldoon would not have been so adamant.

Quite. I don''t see what the auditors could be caught out by.

Assuming they have the proof of three payments from Sponsors A, B and C, it's of no interest to them where the money may have come from before getting to B and C.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

All this about City's accounts and what our auditors might have missed and when they might have missed is fascinating. I can't help wondering how much trouble UEFA might go to now to trace the origin of payments to Liverpool from their money launderers. I wonder if Khaldoon can give them a bit of a hand.

 

[franksinatra]

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I believe uefa went ahead with a case that they may well have known was shaky and knowing we would appeal and have gambled on imposing a draconian sentence, perhaps believing the ban would be reduced at appeal. This is then a win win for them. "We did city, they appealed, they still got a ban" etc.

It's an advanced version of the original case. "We did city, clipped their wings, kept them in their place" what they didnt bank on originally was the explosive growth in our business on and particularly off the field.

I think they've gambled believing the odds of SOME form of punishment remaining after an appeal made it a justifiable gamble. Let's be real here, if we are not completely exonerated (which is by no means guaranteed) uefa have won. The narrative is set for all time, namely "City are cheats. We proved it"

That is why I believe City refused any deal that may have been offered, unlike the first time around. We have gone all in in this. It really is win or bust.

Which again highlights City’s confidence that they can refute these allegations. It feels like one side is partaking in a high level of brinkmanship. The stakes could not be higher for ourselves and, in some ways, it is quite alarming how soon we will find out.

 

[franksinatra]

Reading this thread, I am struck by the fact that Bluemooners have got much closer to the truth than the national press. Ok, we are naturally biassed and some of our posts are wide of the mark but, generally speaking, we present a strong analytical case.
@Prestwich_Blue has a much better grasp of the technicalities than any of the scribblers. @nmc produced a marvellous analysis of the psychological dimension to this case. There are many other decent contributions and this is without access to facts which the press could obtain but are reluctant to do so.
Nobody reading the press would get the impression that there is a huge battle going on between the G14, who have largely captured UEFA, and elements within the organization who want a fairer more balanced approach. The European Clubs association is silent -- the cartel is in the process of capturing them, too. What you might call the second rank of European clubs are being damaged and there seems to be no-one standing up for them.
As an example, take UEFA's boasting about the success of FFP. It has actually damaged European football. Oh, say Uefa, look how the losses have reduced. That may be so, but at an enormous cost. No paper has pointed out that balance sheets are a mess: large borrowings and debt mean clubs are to no position to handle the financial effects of coronavirus. As for competitiveness, look at leagues all over Europe: from the largest to the smallest mostly they are dominated by just one club. France, Italy, Germany know who the champions will be before a ball is kicked. In the smaller leagues the situation is even worse. No paper has done any analysis. Only England is an exception due, of course, to the filthy oil money of Chelsea and City. Bluemoon has discussed this, where is the contribution of the Times or Guardian? No, they prefer to major on City's 'sins' and get the clicks.
So, Bluemooners try to make sense of all this, while the national media scribblers go to the pub, and they call us paranoid.
When UEFA implodes and the G14 run football for their own benefit with a closed shop competition, everyone will ask what happened. The answer is that the press will have let us all down in favour of clickbait.
Keep at it blues, we will win in the end.

There has been some excellent research, written posts and reasoned debate. Blue Moon at its best.

 

[Ballet-on-ice]

One thing keeps niggling away at me. When the original sanction was handed out in February the club released a statement in which they said they would "pursue an impartial judgment as quickly as possible and will therefore, in the first instance, commence proceedings with the Court of Arbitration for Sport at the earliest opportunity. "

It's the bit in bold that worries me, does this mean that the club are fully aware of the landscape and know this is merely the second phase of a long drawn out process that hopefully sees us exonerated.

I have heard a small number of journos and a sprinkling of posters on this thread express the belief that we are in this for the longhaul and that this may infact end up being taken to the Swiss federal supreme Court. If this is so then we need to be prepared for the original decision to be upheld by CAS and the subsequent distress, worry and turmoil that will no doubt come our way.

Just a thought. Sorry!

 

[KS55]

One thing keeps niggling away at me. When the original sanction was handed out in February the club released a statement in which they said they would "pursue an impartial judgment as quickly as possible and will therefore, in the first instance, commence proceedings with the Court of Arbitration for Sport at the earliest opportunity. "

It's the bit in bold that worries me, does this mean that the club are fully aware of the landscape and know this is merely the second phase of a long drawn out process that hopefully sees us exonerated.

I have heard a small number of journos and a sprinkling of posters on this thread express the belief that we are in this for the longhaul and that this may infact end up being taken to the Swiss federal supreme Court. If this is so then we need to be prepared for the original decision to be upheld by CAS and the subsequent distress, worry and turmoil that will no doubt come our way.

Just a thought. Sorry!

Probably a threat to UEFA......Watch out, we will go all the way, if necessary.
Doesn't mean we expect to lose at CAS.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

As much as I’d love the club to come out swinging with cast iron evidence that would take down UEFA & the cartel clubs I find it hard to think we have anything substantial on them.

The notion that we have steadfastly sat on it in the face of an onslaught rather than at least put some of it out there as a warning seems fanciful at best to me.

It’s not UEFA and the Cartel who are being charged though, it’s us. Doesn’t matter what we have on them because it’s not that that’s being looked at.

We just have to prove that we either did nothing wrong or that, if we did do something wrong, we can hold up the claim the information was obtained illegally and can’t be used against us. Or the charge is upheld.

Then the case with CAS is closed and that’s the end of it with them and we have to go to court with it. Even there nothing against UEFA and the Cartel will be looked at.

 

[Bill the Blue]

Which again highlights City’s confidence that they can refute these allegations. It feels like one side is partaking in a high level of brinkmanship. The stakes could not be higher for ourselves and, in some ways, it is quite alarming how soon we will find out.

Got to hold our nerve, keep the faith and trust in the Club to finally clear our name of any wrong doing..!

This time only a slate wiped clean / case closed result will be acceptable..!

It's dragged on for far too long, I for one am not alarmed at it finally coming to a head, on the contrary, let's get it done..!

 

[SilverFox2]

All this about City's accounts and what our auditors might have missed and when they might have missed is fascinating. I can't help wondering how much trouble UEFA might go to now to trace the origin of payments to Liverpool from their money launderers. I wonder if Khaldoon can give them a bit of a hand.

According to the FBI it was Iran a nd drug money, mind you most of the banks have been doing the same

 

[franksinatra]

Got to hold our nerve, keep the faith and trust in the Club to finally clear our name of any wrong doing..!

This time only a slate wiped clean / case closed result will be acceptable..!

It's dragged on for far too long, I for one am not alarmed at it finally coming to a head, on the contrary, let's get it done..!

Great attitude Bill. I always fear the worst with City, the late 80/90s ensured that.

 

[Centurions]

One thing keeps niggling away at me. When the original sanction was handed out in February the club released a statement in which they said they would "pursue an impartial judgment as quickly as possible and will therefore, in the first instance, commence proceedings with the Court of Arbitration for Sport at the earliest opportunity. "

It's the bit in bold that worries me, does this mean that the club are fully aware of the landscape and know this is merely the second phase of a long drawn out process that hopefully sees us exonerated.

I have heard a small number of journos and a sprinkling of posters on this thread express the belief that we are in this for the longhaul and that this may infact end up being taken to the Swiss federal supreme Court. If this is so then we need to be prepared for the original decision to be upheld by CAS and the subsequent distress, worry and turmoil that will no doubt come our way.

Just a thought. Sorry!

The 'in the first instance' bit is just another indication of how bullish City are in this. It's a warning shot that we will go all the way if necessary, even with a full exoneration from CAS I don't think that will be the last of it from ourselves anyway.

 

[The Colonel]

Very good point George. UEFA stands in the way of the Cartel getting their European Super League. They'd be equally happy to see us take UEFA down as to see UEFA take us down. So they see it as a win-win but some of them are going to end up as the casualties here.

God I hope you’re right I this one.