UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[Prestwich_Blue]

If it is good news for us, then it could leave the FFP process in tatters. That'll be our fault too, but if we are cleared then it inevitably highlights serious faults with the legitimacy and fairness of the process, and will be interesting to see if uefa reform it. Maybe then they'll actually use FFP to help all clubs with a safety net, rather than to keep stuffing the fat cats at the top table.

There's a section of the media attempting to paint this as a trial of FFP itself but that's nonsense. FFP will carry on as normal, regardless of the fact that it's a fundamentally flawed mechanism for determining & managing financial sustainability.

If it's good news for us on Monday then it potentially leaves the CFCB's process in tatters, not the whole FFP process. Leterme will be the loser, not UEFA. Best case scenario for us (and by definition the worst for the CFCB) isthat CAS finds that the CFCB's process was competely flawed and that, far from being independent (as UEFA claim) it was open to all sorts of blandishments and threats, and that there was a definitive agenda against us by certain parties.

 

[Marvin]

Of course it should. But the reality is you can't sign up to a competitions rules and then be upset about it if you have breached them.

If. Do you think the Der Spiegel emails suggest we have? Most City fans have over the months come up with various explanations as to why they are not damning. Even David Conn who politically does not like our owner, argued that the Etihad deal amounted to state sponsorship. Even if the UAE state did indeed finance a shortfall as long as City have in place a sponsorship agreement of £60m pa with etihad then that feels fair. If you are Der Spiegel and you want to damage a Sheikh then you can dress it up as deception but it needn't be that at all.

 

[Levyblue]

Jesus, hop offProject's dick.

The guy quotes a few of CAS' old verdicts, quotes the same Latin phrase "de novo" and people take what he says as gospel and for some reason defend him from any rebuttal (as you're doing)

for me he's acting like a bit of a dramatis personae.

This made me genuinely laugh out loud!

 

[pavelsrnicek]

Of course it should. But the reality is you can't sign up to a competitions rules and then be upset about it if you have breached them.

I have an issue with saying we signed up to these rules as the rules are imposed by UEFA as the ruling body for European football. If we want to play Champions League football we have to follow UEFA’s rules. The implication is we can decline a European spot if we don’t like UEFA’s rules which is a bit of a nonsense as players wouldn’t want to play for us and we would be under pressure from the premier league to play in Europe.

The issue with FFP and City is that FFP doesn’t effect all teams equally. Any new investors in less successful are subject to barriers to limit their ability to invest in their club. These rules don’t effect some of the more traditionally successful clubs.

I have seen City and Saracens both mentioned as cheats. The difference for me is that all English rugby clubs have to abide by a salary cap, any breach gives a club a huge advantage as all clubs have to follow the same rules. FFP doesn’t effect all clubs equally, it allows richer clubs spend more than others and rewards debt over investment.

Ultimately FFP creates an oligopoly for the likes of Real, United, Bayern etc.

 

[KS55]

Jesus, hop offProject's dick.

The guy quotes a few of CAS' old verdicts, quotes the same Latin phrase "de novo" and people take what he says as gospel and for some reason defend him from any rebuttal (as you're doing)

for me he's acting like a bit of a dramatis personae.

Well, you are wrong. I have disagreed with PR several times (with trepidation), but for one blue to say another is not a real fan crosses the line. PR has spent a lot of time looking up precedent, the rules etc and posted many times. He has an expertise which we should take note of.

 

[HelloCity]

Controversial take...

Some of our fans will be secretly annoyed if we don’t get banned. You know the types. Those always desperate to be contrarian and appear unbiased. It’ll ruin some of their potential ‘I told you so’ blog entries that’s for sure.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

True but at what point does lobbying become more than that and anti-competitive. It’s a fine line. It wasn’t practical to challenge FFP but that doesn’t mean we have to go along with every UEFA ruling against us and we haven’t...hence CAS.

Or was a calculated decision that " taking the pinch " would clear the way for us to continue un-hindered.

But for Die Siegel that decision would have probably been correct even if we weren't withing the cabal.

 

[KS55]

I have an issue with saying we signed up to these rules as the rules are imposed by UEFA as the ruling body for European football. If we want to play Champions League football we have to follow UEFA’s rules. The implication is we can decline a European spot if we don’t like UEFA’s rules which is a bit of a nonsense as players wouldn’t want to play for us and we would be under pressure from the premier league to play in Europe.

The issue with FFP and City is that FFP doesn’t effect all teams equally. Any new investors in less successful are subject to barriers to limit their ability to invest in their club. These rules don’t effect some of the more traditionally successful clubs.

I have seen City and Saracens both mentioned as cheats. The difference for me is that all English rugby clubs have to abide by a salary cap, any breach gives a club a huge advantage as all clubs have to follow the same rules. FFP doesn’t effect all clubs equally, it allows richer clubs spend more than others and rewards debt over investment.

Ultimately FFP creates an oligopoly for the likes of Real, United, Bayern etc.

Mr Wenger belatedly likes this. YCNMIU

 

[slbsn]

There's a section of the media attempting to paint this as a trial of FFP itself but that's nonsense. FFP will carry on as normal, regardless of the fact that it's a fundamentally flawed mechanism for determining & managing financial sustainability.

If it's good news for us on Monday then it potentially leaves the CFCB's process in tatters, not the whole FFP process. Leterme will be the loser, not UEFA. Best case scenario for us (and by definition the worst for the CFCB) isthat CAS finds that the CFCB's process was competely flawed and that, far from being independent (as UEFA claim) it was open to all sorts of blandishments and threats, and that there was a definitive agenda against us by certain parties.

It just isn't going to do that. You have seen how CAS writes its judgments. I agree this is no trial of FFP but it is no trial of CFCB either.

I suspect if we win it will just say CAS doesn't agree UEFA had sufficient foundation to claim the sponsorship was overstated (assuming the settlement/limitation arguments fail) and that the audited accounts should be preferred as evidence. It will be painted as a difference of legal opinion.

 

[Marvin]

Controversial take...

Some of our fans will be secretly annoyed if we don’t get banned. You know the types. Those always desperate to be contrarian and appear unbiased. It’ll ruin some of their potential ‘I told you so’ blog entries that’s for sure.

I'll reply with another controversial take then:

Lose and we go to war with football and being evangelical feels good for the soul. How good would it be if we were wronged by football, and came back and lifted the Premier League? I'd enjoy that very much. I wouldn't enjoy the Monday, but I'd enjoy the war afterwards. Even if we lose, we're not going to melt away.

 

[TheThirdDeano]

Well, you are wrong. I have disagreed with PR several times (with trepidation), but for one blue to say another is not a real fan crosses the line. PR has spent a lot of time looking up precedent, the rules etc and posted many times. He has an expertise which we should take note of.

I’m sure project is a big enough person to defend themselves.
But I’m glad you’re here superblue! please protect me as well in the future, I’m a real blue but I never pissed in the Kippax sinks so I doubt I’d stand up to much scrutiny

 

[Keeper!]

I don't agree with you about that. FFP was hijacked and drafted in a format that deliberately favoured the legacy clubs. And we've been targeted by rival clubs with FFP as the net. City have also said that UEFA is split between hawks and doves.

Completely agree but if we win this appeal, do we not also become a "legacy" club and will Newcastle fans be having this conversation in a few years time if and when they become a threat?

 

[bluenova]

There's a section of the media attempting to paint this as a trial of FFP itself but that's nonsense. FFP will carry on as normal, regardless of the fact that it's a fundamentally flawed mechanism for determining & managing financial sustainability.

If it's good news for us on Monday then it potentially leaves the CFCB's process in tatters, not the whole FFP process. Leterme will be the loser, not UEFA. Best case scenario for us (and by definition the worst for the CFCB) isthat CAS finds that the CFCB's process was competely flawed and that, far from being independent (as UEFA claim) it was open to all sorts of blandishments and threats, and that there was a definitive agenda against us by certain parties.

He managed to stick around after the PSG decision, which was far dodgier.

If we win it may be the final straw, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[BerkshireBlue]

Of course it should. But the reality is you can't sign up to a competitions rules and then be upset about it if you have breached them.

These competition rules have to follow EU law. UEFA have been told this a few times already see the Bosman rulling. The EU law has laws about anti competitive business practice which of course FFP fails. UEFA knows if this goes to a proper court they'll get taken to the cleaners.

 

[blueparrot]

It just isn't going to do that. You have seen how CAS writes its judgments. I agree this is no trial of FFP but it is no trial of CFCB either.

I suspect if we win it will just say CAS doesn't agree UEFA had sufficient foundation to claim the sponsorship was overstated (assuming the settlement/limitation arguments fail) and that the audited accounts should be preferred as evidence. It will be painted as a difference of legal opinion.

While CAS may not give a specific judgement on the CFCB. UEFA may be be left with no choice but to make it's own judgement.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

It just isn't going to do that. You have seen how CAS writes its judgments. I agree this is no trial of FFP but it is no trial of CFCB either.

I suspect if we win it will just say CAS doesn't agree UEFA had sufficient foundation to claim the sponsorship was overstated (assuming the settlement/limitation arguments fail) and that the audited accounts should be preferred as evidence. It will be painted as a difference of legal opinion.

I did say that would be the best case scenario for us & the worst for them. It is a "trial" of the CFCB in the widest sense, as much as it is a "trial" of our financial processes, but I suspect you're right in how the verdict will pan out.

 

[M18CTID]

If City felt that FFP was bollocks then the club should have challenged it when it was introduced. They didn't, they've agreed to Uefa's rules so it's absurd now that people are still trotting the line of "it's unfair".

This whole blaming other clubs is a nonsense. It's a competitive, multi billion industry where finishing fourth is a guaranteed £100m with CL qualification. The idea that other clubs are going to sit idly by and want City to get off freely if we have broken rules is a nonsense.

You’ve spectacularly missed my point.

Firstly, I never said anything about FFP itself and to be honest, I’m not as against FFP as others on here and I wouldn’t mind betting that the club aren’t. There are certain aspects to it that I most definitely don’t agree with but there are other parts to it that never get discussed on here and actually make a lot of sense.

Secondly, your post smacks of someone who is looking at it from the angle of us being guilty of what we’re accused of. Now if we are, and someone can show me why we are in the form of solid proof, then I’m not going to argue with any punishment handed down. However, my post was based on the scenario of us being innocent of any wrong doing and if CAS side with us, then it’s clear that this has been an orchestrated attack. Now if you think it’s ok for certain clubs and individuals to go around lobbing unfounded accusations then that’s your prerogative. However, I bet you wouldn’t be quite so accommodating if someone with a grudge against you starting falsely accusing you of all sorts of shit. I mean, do you seriously think it’s acceptable for c*nts like Tebas - given his position - to come out with the shit he has, and to do it without even knowing the ins and outs of the case?

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

Of course it should. But the reality is you can't sign up to a competitions rules and then be upset about it if you have breached them.

But you can surely challenge those rules when you feel that they are being applied unfairly or blatanlty wrongly .

 

[slbsn]

Jesus, hop offProject's dick.

The guy quotes a few of CAS' old verdicts, quotes the same Latin phrase "de novo" and people take what he says as gospel and for some reason defend him from any rebuttal (as you're doing)

for me he's acting like a bit of a dramatis personae.

Dramatis persona surely

Anyway, any chance you can do another one of your posts where you ask why people are discussing things in a discussion forum?

 

[The Future is Blue]

I'll reply with another controversial take then:

Lose and we go to war with football and being evangelical feels good for the soul. How good would it be if we were wronged by football, and came back and lifted the Premier League? I'd enjoy that very much. I wouldn't enjoy the Monday, but I'd enjoy the war afterwards. Even if we lose, we're not going to melt away.

I would like the Mansour to flex his financial muscles and create his own competition. Let the G14 slope off and play each other time and time again like the SPFL. (What a treat that is!) He could offer prize money way more than the opposition comps and allow the world's media to broadcast it for far less. The G14 would start out ok but would wither and die in time. It can be done!