UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[Newman Noggs]

City have shown smart investment, take that as a compliment. Getting the best people in to run your club is an obvious thing to do but you don't have to look very far to see how easy it is to piss money up against a wall..

That's the point. FFP doesn't just stop stupid investment, it prevents smart investment of the sort we have done, and then been vilified and punished for doing.

FFP might be acceptable if it allowed an owner to invest cash or underwrite debts or deposit funds to cover liabilities but they aren't because of the sleight of hand that made FFP about losses and not about debt as was originally intended.

 

[BobbyBoy]

That's the point. FFP doesn't just stop stupid investment, it prevents smart investment of the sort we have done, and then been vilified and punished for doing.

FFP might be acceptable if it allowed an owner to invest cash or underwrite debts or deposit funds to cover liabilities but they aren't because of the sleight of hand that made FFP about losses and not about debt as was originally intended.

That's why I earlier that you need to stop looking at it through Man City eyes. City have been clever in the way they have invested, so have Liverpool, Leicester, Wolves and possibly Norwich if you can call getting relegated clever. The list of clubs that have been stupid/reckless is the lenght of my arm, Man Utd have pissed away money for 5 or 6 years, Everton have being doing that for 3 years now, Arsenal bought another attacker when they needed players in virtually every other position, Aston Villa bought a small army of players.

I'm not saying it's perfect but it is required in some format. The changes you suggested look perfectly reasonable, they would stop an owner packing up and leaving a trail of destruction behind him.

The debt issue is too complicated to resolve, how are a publicly listed company like Utd supposed to clear debts? That shipped sailed 15 years ago, it would be impossible to ever get on top of that.

 

[Metalartin]

That's why I earlier that you need to stop looking at it through Man City eyes. City have been clever in the way they have invested, so have Liverpool, Leicester, Wolves and possibly Norwich if you can call getting relegated clever. The list of clubs that have been stupid/reckless is the lenght of my arm, Man Utd have pissed away money for 5 or 6 years, Everton have being doing that for 3 years now, Arsenal bought another attacker when they needed players in virtually every other position, Aston Villa bought a small army of players.

I'm not saying it's perfect but it is required in some format. The changes you suggested look perfectly reasonable, they would stop an owner packing up and leaving a trail of destruction behind him.

The debt issue is too complicated to resolve, how are a publicly listed company like Utd supposed to clear debts? That shipped sailed 15 years ago, it would be impossible to ever get on top of that.

Naive view, the fact that they made it not about debt when that would suit the smaller clubs more, tells you what happened. "Oh we can't make it about debt because of United" Says it all.

There could have been clauses, reachable goals to make their owners either get more responsible(year on year improvements) or sell up. These are the types of owners that should be shunned out of the game, not the ones putting money into the game rather than taking billions out of it(this is a simple concept, the truth normally is). Who cares if they sell up? If they are unable to run up massive debts, at least without being legally obligated to cover them by proving they can do so first, that's in the club's best interests.

What happened is the cartel of football got their dirty mitts on the blueprints and now we have this farce that protects old money and doesn't really protect smaller clubs very well.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

How can you say a vote by over two thirds of the league isn't fair? Every club with a vote is a rival of each other in some shape or form. There are a lot more clubs in Everton's position than Man City's or Spurs. Clubs in that position held the cards if they didn't want this rule implemented.

City have shown smart investment, take that as a compliment. Getting the best people in to run your club is an obvious thing to do but you don't have to look very far to see how easy it is to piss money up against a wall.
I'm sorry if you think its arrogant but unfortunately in life you need to legislate for the stupid. If Everton were left at it then they would just keep giving Arsenal and Barcelona 60m every season for the latest reject until eventually the owner cops on and cuts his losses.

What you are saying is that a vote by representatives of PL clubs on club finance will be guided solely by ideas of financial wisdom. This is crass and naive. Spurs, for example had had their financial splurge in the 90s and it hadn't worked and they entered a period of tight financial control. Good for them but their attitude to FFP was not dictated by concern for the stability of other clubs but by self-interested determination to stop other clubs spending more than Spurs could. Other clubs -you know who they are, all of them - were in debt and decided that all other clubs must be stopped spending as well so they wouldn't be a threat. No concern for fair play here, just fear and jealousy. At no point did any of these clubs ever question whether spending by City or the like was actually bad for the game, it was to be outlawed because it threatened the position of exactly those protectionist clubs who had actually been financially stupid or worse. And City do not accept that Levy or any tax exile owner of a club that has effectively won nowt in two generations is in any position to lecture our club or any other on club finance or any other aspect of football. And yes, I do think it's arrogant in the extreme for you to presume to think that you are qualified to pontificate on who the stupid are - especially when you consider your clumsy rules should apply to the best run club in the world - and it ain't yours.

 

[Parisian]

That's why I earlier that you need to stop looking at it through Man City eyes. City have been clever in the way they have invested, so have Liverpool, Leicester, Wolves and possibly Norwich if you can call getting relegated clever. The list of clubs that have been stupid/reckless is the lenght of my arm, Man Utd have pissed away money for 5 or 6 years, Everton have being doing that for 3 years now, Arsenal bought another attacker when they needed players in virtually every other position, Aston Villa bought a small army of players.

I'm not saying it's perfect but it is required in some format. The changes you suggested look perfectly reasonable, they would stop an owner packing up and leaving a trail of destruction behind him.

The debt issue is too complicated to resolve, how are a publicly listed company like Utd supposed to clear debts? That shipped sailed 15 years ago, it would be impossible to ever get on top of that.

There is another problem with FFP you are not taking into account. Sure those clubs have invested in a clever way, but you are talking about PL clubs with PL TV money.

Now, when you don't look from the PL clubs eyes, you can see how problematic it can become. Players are more and more expensive and some clubs don't have he luxury of having huge TV rights and their owners can't invest due to FFP. This was the case of AS Roma that was smart enough to get both Salah and Alisson Becker in their team but had to sell them due to FFP. What would/could have happened if Roma had been able to keep them ? What about that Monaco side that was dismantled and whose players have made their marks subsequently in richer clubs (or clubs who had invested a bit before them) like City and PSG ?

 

[everythingchangesbutblue]

That's why I earlier that you need to stop looking at it through Man City eyes. City have been clever in the way they have invested, so have Liverpool, Leicester, Wolves and possibly Norwich if you can call getting relegated clever. The list of clubs that have been stupid/reckless is the lenght of my arm, Man Utd have pissed away money for 5 or 6 years, Everton have being doing that for 3 years now, Arsenal bought another attacker when they needed players in virtually every other position, Aston Villa bought a small army of players.

I'm not saying it's perfect but it is required in some format. The changes you suggested look perfectly reasonable, they would stop an owner packing up and leaving a trail of destruction behind him.

The debt issue is too complicated to resolve, how are a publicly listed company like Utd supposed to clear debts? That shipped sailed 15 years ago, it would be impossible to ever get on top of that.

Roughly translated is "my club could be under threat by upstarts who could take my clubs place" "Better pretend i have the interests of others clubs at heart by restricting their spending so my club cannot be challenged"

you're fooling no one mate.

 

[Parisian]

Two different situations mate. Leeds's spygate was simply having a man with binoculars checking out training sessions of rival clubs which wasn't very sporting. Liverpool's spygate is the hacking of City's computers which is a criminal offence.

Isn't it even a bigger reason for media to talk about Liverpool case ?

Media weren't cautious to call out City about alleged dodgy financial practices or when they were reporting about a senior member being happy about the death of a member of the FFP team.

But i guess Marvin gave the answer about why it isn't widely reported.

 

[Hoghead]

So nothing new to report then.

 

[BobbyBoy]

Wow it seems the consensus here is Spurs are now among the elite. Good to know. At the latest round of secret super club talks Spurs weren't invited. When they handed out trophies in each of the last 10 years we weren't present there either. We have a squad out of contract and chairman that doesn't spend money.

I was genuinely talking about Everton with no vested interest or consideration for Spurs. When these rules were introduced I suspect Everton were probably ahead of us in the league.

 

[laserblue]

Isn't it even a bigger reason for media to talk about Liverpool case ?

Media weren't cautious to call out City about alleged dodgy financial practices or when they were reporting about a senior member being happy about the death of a member of the FFP team.

But i guess Marvin gave the answer about why it isn't widely reported.

Yes it is but it seems Liverpool's lawyers have been very active and aggressive in choking off the UK media's reporting of the incident.