"UEFA fixed European draws"

[cant spel forgive me]

Bolox Imo

 

[mat]

Bolox Imo

very well reasoned argument.

 

[Matty]

I don't believe there's anything dodgy going on with the drawing of the balls, however some of the "rules" they impose pre-draw on who can and can't be drawn in certain groups is suspect. The reason we automatically got Borussia Dortmund, and United automatically got CFR Cluj, was based around some spurious TV reasoning whereby UEFA didn't want Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund playing their matches on the same matchday so that meant, as Bayern Munich were on the same "half" of the group draw as United, that United couldn't therefore get Dortmund. That right there is a system open to abuse and "manipulation". Lets face it, does anyone actually know or understand all the nuances of who can and can't be drawn in which groups, and on which matchdays?!

You just explained it yourself.

No, I explain, fairly poorly, 1 specific example of 1 nuance, and a nuance I simply don't understand. Why can't Bayern and Dortmund play on the same night? It's not like they are the only German sides in the Champion's League, Schalke were there too, and Moenchengladbach would have been had they got through the qualifying round. Without a transparent explanation it looks like and underhanded method of securing certain sides qualification.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: "UEFA fixed European draws"

Lets face it, does anyone actually know or understand all the nuances of who can and can't be drawn in which groups, and on which matchdays?!

I think I do. I analysed the last couple of draws and there's a distinct pattern. We know all about the pots of course but that's just the overt seeding. There's another, hidden level which generally involves the strongest Pot 1 & 2 teams getting the weaker teams from Pots 3 & 4. There's some variation to that if it involves too many teams from the same country being in the same half of the draw but that's the start point, which is why we got Dortmund and they got Cluj. So on that basis we need to be in the top half of Pot 2 before we get a decent draw in theory.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

Re:

Lets face it, does anyone actually know or understand all the nuances of who can and can't be drawn in which groups, and on which matchdays?!

I think I do. I analysed the last couple of draws and there's a distinct pattern. We know all about the pots of course but that's just the overt seeding. There's another, hidden level which generally involves the strongest Pot 1 & 2 teams getting the weaker teams from Pots 3 & 4. There's some variation to that if it involves too many teams from the same country being in the same half of the draw but that's the start point, which is why we got Dortmund and they got Cluj. So on that basis we need to be in the top half of Pot 2 before we get a decent draw in theory.

On the flipside, as Real Madrid were arguably the 2nd strongest side in Pot 1, why would they be drawn with the strongest side in Pot 4 - Dortmund?

 

[Maldeika]

I don't believe there's anything dodgy going on with the drawing of the balls, however some of the "rules" they impose pre-draw on who can and can't be drawn in certain groups is suspect. The reason we automatically got Borussia Dortmund, and United automatically got CFR Cluj, was based around some spurious TV reasoning whereby UEFA didn't want Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund playing their matches on the same matchday so that meant, as Bayern Munich were on the same "half" of the group draw as United, that United couldn't therefore get Dortmund. That right there is a system open to abuse and "manipulation". Lets face it, does anyone actually know or understand all the nuances of who can and can't be drawn in which groups, and on which matchdays?!

You just explained it yourself.

No, I explain, fairly poorly, 1 specific example of 1 nuance, and a nuance I simply don't understand. Why can't Bayern and Dortmund play on the same night? It's not like they are the only German sides in the Champion's League, Schalke were there too, and Moenchengladbach would have been had they got through the qualifying round. Without a transparent explanation it looks like and underhanded method of securing certain sides qualification.

It is similar reason why Barcelona and Real were not meant to play on the same evening. Or ManCity and ManUnited or Chelsea and Arsenal.

The TV partners had to tell prior to the draw which teams of the nations with more than 2 participants (for the countries with 2 participants it was clear that the two had to be put in different groups) they wanted to have on different
nights.

In Germany public television ZDF has the rights to show one of the Wednesday matches.

Bayern and Dortmund together on one side would have meant that the least attractive team with Schalke would have had three matches on open TV shown whereas they only could have shown one or two each of Dortmund and Bayern. That means less people watching the programme...

 

[mcmanus]

^^ so really it's Telly dictating to EUFA. Ah well nowt new there.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

PB - Your comment sparked some interest from me into your thoughts on the way the draw is made.

Using your logic of saying that the best teams in Pots 1&2 tend to be drawn against the worst teams in Pots 3&4, I would then presume that as a direct result of this, it would mean the worse teams in Pots 1&2 would be drawn with the best teams in Pots 3&4 and, therefore, little choice other than the middle tier teams in all 4 pots being drawn with eachother as they're the only teams left out of this equation?

Before I look closer into this proposed methodology of yours, PB, when you say "the best teams" do you mean according to co-efficiency seedings pre-draw or general opinions on how UEFA officials would rank teams (taking into account stature and performance)? In other words, Shakhtar were higher up the co-efficienct seeding than City, yet is that what you are going along with in your ideas or do you think UEFA would tag City as the "bigger fish"?

 

[LoveCity]

I was excited when I saw Cluj and Nordsjælland were available for us, then utterly baffled when some technicality in the draw meant we couldn't get them and were left with the nightmare of playing Dortmund. There seem to be rules within rules in the Champions League draw, it isn't predetermined but it's really fookin' baffling and seems set up to protect the top clubs with a few freak exceptions (like Real Madrid this year).

 

[claudio-reyna-loyal]

Think they call it seeded draws lol