blue for life
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 15 Sep 2009
- Messages
- 2,431
Could be a great moment for him this. Think most will get behind himHe is very reassuring , lets hope he is as good as he appears
Could be a great moment for him this. Think most will get behind himHe is very reassuring , lets hope he is as good as he appears
Just because it may have been a driver in WW2 doesn’t make patriotism beneficial. Or mean that we should embrace the concept or practice today.
Would you say the patriotism of the German or Italian soldiers was beneficial in WW2? Or the patriotism that drove Argentina to attempt to take the Falklands?
Again, patriotism is a love and devotion to an abstract political unit, most often ignoring the complexity and value of the humans residing within that political unit. It is no more necessary to combat or prevent injustice than love and devotion to religious dogma is to prevent or combat unethical behaviour. In fact, it is often the driver of injustice, because people can be convinced to do truly horrific things in the “name of their nation” (which often symbolises an ethnic affinity and/or political ideology). It has been used to justify all manner of horrific undertakings, often against people residing in the political unit that “patriots” deem not actually “belonging” to the political unit or simply not being sufficiently “patriotic”. See the “they’re not real Americans or Brits” nonsense with Jewish people in the US and UK, or with Muslims (or anyone looking Middle Eastern), especially after 9/11 (or countless other examples throughout our history, especially when it came to Indian people we brought to the UK).
Just because patriotism was used as a driver in the past doesn’t mean it should be today, especially after we have learned it is a dangerous concept and practice which has actually caused far more suffering, death, and destruction than it has ever prevented or remedied.
My comments are on what we should do moving forward, knowing what we know now. And anyone that has a passing understanding of history should know patriotism is a destructive concept and practice (which enters the realm of ideology), even for those supposedly on the “good” side.
It is a dogma, like any other.
Did you know his Dad was a Tool Maker? And Kier was his biggest creation, he never mentions he actually owned the Businessno waffle, no jokes, no latin, no ruffling his mop-straight honest and knowledgeable.
the danger is the right wing press allowing him to lead
Did you know his Dad was a Tool Maker? And Kier was his biggest creation, he never mentions he actually owned the Business
news to meDid you know his Dad was a Tool Maker? And Kier was his biggest creation, he never mentions he actually owned the Business
I actually agree that patriotism and nationalism have been conflated, to the point where there isn’t actually much of a difference in practice, which is one of the dangers of it.The problem is whether patriotism necessarily goes along with a hatred of the Other. A desire to exterminate the Other. It doesn't necessarily. It can be simply a positive love of the place where one was born and grew up. But it can be enlisted negatively in that cause, and history gives many examples where it has been. Personally, I'd argue that at that point it's veered over into nationalism. I make a distinction between the two. Patriotism is a feeling, a sentiment, a conviction. Nationalism is, effectively, an ideology. Usually a warmongering one.
By labelling the Patriot Act by that name in the wake of 11 September, it effectively made it impossible for anyone to look at the precise terms of it and express even mild reservations. We'll still living with the consequences of that piece of legislation. And they are world-wide.
Oh and I love the charmingly named Patriot Missiles — the express purpose of which is to vaporize and incinerate men, women, children and babies in their thousands.
Just because it may have been a driver in WW2 doesn’t make patriotism beneficial. Or mean that we should embrace the concept or practice today.
Would you say the patriotism of the German or Italian soldiers was beneficial in WW2? Or the patriotism that drove Argentina to attempt to take the Falklands?
Again, patriotism is a love and devotion to an abstract political unit, most often ignoring the complexity and value of the humans residing within that political unit. It is no more necessary to combat or prevent injustice than love and devotion to religious dogma is to prevent or combat unethical behaviour. In fact, it is often the driver of injustice, because people can be convinced to do truly horrific things in the “name of their nation” (which often symbolises an ethnic affinity and/or political ideology). It has been used to justify all manner of horrific undertakings, often against people residing in the political unit that “patriots” deem not actually “belonging” to the political unit or simply not being sufficiently “patriotic”. See the “they’re not real Americans or Brits” nonsense with Jewish people in the US and UK, or with Muslims (or anyone looking Middle Eastern), especially after 9/11 (or countless other examples throughout our history, especially when it came to Indian people we brought to the UK).
Just because patriotism was used as a driver in the past doesn’t mean it should be today, especially after we have learned it is a dangerous concept and practice which has actually caused far more suffering, death, and destruction than it has ever prevented or remedied.
My comments are on what we should do moving forward, knowing what we know now. And anyone that has a passing understanding of history should know patriotism is a destructive concept and practice (which enters the realm of ideology), even for those supposedly on the “good” side.
It is a dogma, like any other.
No, I think that is multiculturalism. :-)Genuine question....do you believe that "patriotism" is/could be a binding together of multi cultural communities
If so, is that a "bad" thing?
No, I think that is multiculturalism. :-)
Which also has no need for “patriotism”.
It will be exactly the same as the last shower.His first big test, and I'm hoping he will deliver.
Either way I'm sure it will be better than anything the last shower would have done