bringer678
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 19 Dec 2010
- Messages
- 1,441
The country would be so much better off without it IMO
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UK out of EU
- Thread starter Tuearts right boot
- Start date
Mad Eyed Screamer
Moderator
marios stress ball said:The country would be so much better off without it IMO
and become the 51st state of America instead ;)
leithblue
Well-Known Member
Leave the EU and do what exactly?
Rely on our huge manufacturing industry and hordes of cheap labour like the ASPAC or India countries?
Perhaps go it alone and rely on our well respected and efficient banking institutions like the Swiss? Or use all the money put aside from the last 40 years from oil revenue like the Norwegians?
Or recognise that the West no longer has an inbuilt advantage in its economy and the best way to cope in future is to remain within a large trading block made up of largely similarly developed neighbours that can compete in future. The Euro is struggling but it's no reason to write off the EU.
I mean the Germans see the EU as crucial, but what do they know eh?
Rely on our huge manufacturing industry and hordes of cheap labour like the ASPAC or India countries?
Perhaps go it alone and rely on our well respected and efficient banking institutions like the Swiss? Or use all the money put aside from the last 40 years from oil revenue like the Norwegians?
Or recognise that the West no longer has an inbuilt advantage in its economy and the best way to cope in future is to remain within a large trading block made up of largely similarly developed neighbours that can compete in future. The Euro is struggling but it's no reason to write off the EU.
I mean the Germans see the EU as crucial, but what do they know eh?
BimboBob
Well-Known Member
Re: Re: UK out of EU
We can still keep the trade agreements without paying the over the top fees to a corupt organisation.
leithblue said:Leave the EU and do what exactly?
Rely on our huge manufacturing industry and hordes of cheap labour like the ASPAC or India countries?
Perhaps go it alone and rely on our well respected and efficient banking institutions like the Swiss? Or use all the money put aside from the last 40 years from oil revenue like the Norwegians?
Or recognise that the West no longer has an inbuilt advantage in its economy and the best way to cope in future is to remain within a large trading block made up of largely similarly developed neighbours that can compete in future. The Euro is struggling but it's no reason to write off the EU.
I mean the Germans see the EU as crucial, but what do they know eh?
We can still keep the trade agreements without paying the over the top fees to a corupt organisation.
Bill
Moderator
I'd dump the eu tomorrow.
Biggest con ever.
Biggest con ever.
leithblue
Well-Known Member
Re: Re: UK out of EU
There's no guarantee of that. France, Germany, Spain et al wouldn't be too keen let us wander off and agree to that.
Leave the EU and import VAT and Duty becomes applicable on most sales into EU countries, further disincentivising Europe to trade with us. In the same way the cost of living in the UK would go up as bringing goods in from elsewhere in the EU would increase.
Norway get away with it by being matey with the rest of the Nordics and having a shedload of oil hanging around, plus the Commission are desperate for Norway to join.
We leave, we'd have no friends in Europe, as it is we're hardly popular.
BimboBob said:leithblue said:Leave the EU and do what exactly?
Rely on our huge manufacturing industry and hordes of cheap labour like the ASPAC or India countries?
Perhaps go it alone and rely on our well respected and efficient banking institutions like the Swiss? Or use all the money put aside from the last 40 years from oil revenue like the Norwegians?
Or recognise that the West no longer has an inbuilt advantage in its economy and the best way to cope in future is to remain within a large trading block made up of largely similarly developed neighbours that can compete in future. The Euro is struggling but it's no reason to write off the EU.
I mean the Germans see the EU as crucial, but what do they know eh?
We can still keep the trade agreements without paying the over the top fees to a corupt organisation.
There's no guarantee of that. France, Germany, Spain et al wouldn't be too keen let us wander off and agree to that.
Leave the EU and import VAT and Duty becomes applicable on most sales into EU countries, further disincentivising Europe to trade with us. In the same way the cost of living in the UK would go up as bringing goods in from elsewhere in the EU would increase.
Norway get away with it by being matey with the rest of the Nordics and having a shedload of oil hanging around, plus the Commission are desperate for Norway to join.
We leave, we'd have no friends in Europe, as it is we're hardly popular.
BimboBob
Well-Known Member
Re: Re: UK out of EU
The trade agreements would stay in place due to the rest of Europe wanting to sell stuff to us. A tit for tat import tax is not what countries like Spain, Portugal or France want as they are not at all stable at the moment.
We are paying a huge amount to the EU at the moment, we are taking on too many stupid laws that cost us a huge amount to impliment and for what reason?
Leave the EU. Keep the trade agreements, negotiate a proper agreement with the US (something we can't do at the moment due to EU laws) and get this country back to running itself and making it's own laws without interference.
leithblue said:BimboBob said:leithblue said:Leave the EU and do what exactly?
Rely on our huge manufacturing industry and hordes of cheap labour like the ASPAC or India countries?
Perhaps go it alone and rely on our well respected and efficient banking institutions like the Swiss? Or use all the money put aside from the last 40 years from oil revenue like the Norwegians?
Or recognise that the West no longer has an inbuilt advantage in its economy and the best way to cope in future is to remain within a large trading block made up of largely similarly developed neighbours that can compete in future. The Euro is struggling but it's no reason to write off the EU.
I mean the Germans see the EU as crucial, but what do they know eh?
We can still keep the trade agreements without paying the over the top fees to a corupt organisation.
There's no guarantee of that. France, Germany, Spain et al wouldn't be too keen let us wander off and agree to that.
Leave the EU and import VAT and Duty becomes applicable on most sales into EU countries, further disincentivising Europe to trade with us. In the same way the cost of living in the UK would go up as bringing goods in from elsewhere in the EU would increase.
Norway get away with it by being matey with the rest of the Nordics and having a shedload of oil hanging around, plus the Commission are desperate for Norway to join.
We leave, we'd have no friends in Europe, as it is we're hardly popular.
The trade agreements would stay in place due to the rest of Europe wanting to sell stuff to us. A tit for tat import tax is not what countries like Spain, Portugal or France want as they are not at all stable at the moment.
We are paying a huge amount to the EU at the moment, we are taking on too many stupid laws that cost us a huge amount to impliment and for what reason?
Leave the EU. Keep the trade agreements, negotiate a proper agreement with the US (something we can't do at the moment due to EU laws) and get this country back to running itself and making it's own laws without interference.
leithblue
Well-Known Member
It's naive to suggest that removing ourselves from the EU would certainly not have an adverse effect on our ability to trade with either the rest of Europe, or the rest of the world. The UK is not powerful enough on its own, it needs to be within a single trading bloc to be able to go forward. We can only influence that trading bloc by being at the centre of it.
EFTA is not a fall-back option when you move away from the EU, it is a stepping stone to EU Membership. Like above, Norway and Switzerland get away with it, but the chances are they will be faced with a stark choice at some point in the next 20 years about EU membership on an all-or-nothing basis.
Take something like ADD, the EU has the buying power to impose ADD on specific products, the UK would be ignored. Would China, US, any other country particularly care if only the UK sought to protect its national market by restricting imports and imposing tariffs? Tariffs only have an effect when they make the exporter take notice, they protect local jobs. Look at hi-tech manufacturing, which is something we can still do, our industry is sheltered by the EU making it difficult for the Far East to flood the market.
I'm not a happy clapper europhile, the EU is not a perfect institution and reform is clearly needed, yet I believe that it is the best option for the UK. But we are not clever enough to use the advantage we have at an EU level yet. With France and Germany, the UK is one of the "go-to" nations in EU decision making given our presence in Brussels and size of our economy. But we get ourselves tied up in handwringing about whether we should be there in the first place rather than making our voices heard there. MSPs are too concerned with having to justify their existence than influencing policy. We don't play the game well enough. It's sad that there is a game to play, but that's the way in any environment.
Anyway, this is something that will run on and on (and on and on and on...).
EFTA is not a fall-back option when you move away from the EU, it is a stepping stone to EU Membership. Like above, Norway and Switzerland get away with it, but the chances are they will be faced with a stark choice at some point in the next 20 years about EU membership on an all-or-nothing basis.
Take something like ADD, the EU has the buying power to impose ADD on specific products, the UK would be ignored. Would China, US, any other country particularly care if only the UK sought to protect its national market by restricting imports and imposing tariffs? Tariffs only have an effect when they make the exporter take notice, they protect local jobs. Look at hi-tech manufacturing, which is something we can still do, our industry is sheltered by the EU making it difficult for the Far East to flood the market.
I'm not a happy clapper europhile, the EU is not a perfect institution and reform is clearly needed, yet I believe that it is the best option for the UK. But we are not clever enough to use the advantage we have at an EU level yet. With France and Germany, the UK is one of the "go-to" nations in EU decision making given our presence in Brussels and size of our economy. But we get ourselves tied up in handwringing about whether we should be there in the first place rather than making our voices heard there. MSPs are too concerned with having to justify their existence than influencing policy. We don't play the game well enough. It's sad that there is a game to play, but that's the way in any environment.
Anyway, this is something that will run on and on (and on and on and on...).
clarkie_ni
Well-Known Member
a lot of jobs are created due to EU projects and such,
if we left there would be more job losses , which would be a travesty in this climate.
you have to take the rough with the smooth
if we left there would be more job losses , which would be a travesty in this climate.
you have to take the rough with the smooth