UK State Pension

mosssideblue said:
Slightly off topic but are care home costs justifiable or are they ripping vulnerable people off?
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We have PoA for a relative with dementia.
She wanted to stay at home as long as possible.
Luckily she is minted but the at home care of 10 hours a day cost £9000 a month, £108,000 a year.
On top of that were food, utility bills, heating, gardening, house maintenance, tv licence, Sky, broadband, etc..
She has just had to go into a care home.
It is costing her £5000 a month, £60,000 a year.
She is saving a fortune compared to being at home now.
 
Scottyboi said:
I completely get that, was more thinking along the lines of people with no pension but in ok health. People might have no other choice but to have 3 generations under one roof due to finances.

Poor neighbour had a stroke a couple of years ago I've not seen him since, apparently his brother is going to be selling the house which will go towards my neighbours care bill. The social care crisis is a ticking time bomb.

What happened to the elderly in the 60s,70s,80s, how were they looked after or funded if they needed a care home?
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My mother looked after her mother.
My wife’s mother looked after her mother.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
We have PoA for a relative with dementia.
She wanted to stay at home as long as possible.
Luckily she is minted but the at home care of 10 hours a day cost £9000 a month, £108,000 a year.
On top of that were food, utility bills, heating, gardening, house maintenance, tv licence, Sky, broadband, etc..
She has just had to go into a care home.
It is costing her £5000 a month, £60,000 a year.
She is saving a fortune compared to being at home now.
Click to expand...
Didn’t really address my question eg is £5k month about right or ott? I simply don’t know
 
It does answer your question.

All bills met, food, laundry, electricity, entertainment, 24 hours care from qualified staff, on site registered nurses and still much cheaper than trying to do it with care at home only.
I don’t think it’s outrageous when you cost it out.

Seems to be standard fees round here.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
It does answer your question.

All bills met, food, laundry, electricity, entertainment, 24 hours care from qualified staff, on site registered nurses and still much cheaper than trying to do it with care at home only.
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All you have given is one cost being cheaper than the other, not whether the cost is reasonable in the first place. Will leave it there
 
Don’t be such a mard arse.

As I wrote sit down and try and cost out the service provided. If you are capable of that you should find the service provided is not unreasonably priced.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
Don’t be such a mard arse.

As I wrote sit down and try and cost out the service provided. If you are capable of that you should find the service provided is not unreasonably priced.
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Not being a mard arse at all. I could see your argument if it was one or two being looked after in a care home, but when there are many all paying vast sums, then doesn’t that change the dynamic of revenue versus expenditure?
 
mosssideblue said:
Slightly off topic but are care home costs justifiable or are they ripping vulnerable people off?
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I used to have around 8-10 care homes as clients when I had my business and they all made good money, particularly those in wealthy areas with private clients. Those funded by local authorities didn’t make as much as there was a ceiling on what they could charge per resident and some Local Authorities insisted there was a clause in the contract that they could not ask the residents for top up fees so for the Home it was take it or leave it. The problem going forward is with the increase in wages and Employers NIC’s, over the last few years some of the less profitable ones may go to the wall. Most Local Authorities try to keep the old at home and provide home care as it is a lot cheaper .
 
mosssideblue said:
Didn’t really address my question eg is £5k month about right or ott? I simply don’t know
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There are two types of care provided. Homes with non nursing staff which are a lot cheaper. Residents are assessed before admittance to see what type of care is needed. Nursing care is far more expensive for those that need more than just sitting in front of the tele all day. Dementia care is also expensive. That said if it is the residents that foot the bill the Home can charge what it likes. Is £5kper month, expensive, if it’s a Care Home there is probably about right but depends on size of the home. For nursing home care you are probably looking at around £2k- £2.5 k per WEEK
 
Regarding retirement tax code allowance being less than the pension perhaps how other countries do this could be used.
For instance Spain does not tax its pensioners if the gross pay is less than about 20K euros. So a couple of pensioners could earn up to about 40K per anum without paying tax when tax assessed individually.
The only drawback is it must be just one pension source per person. Otherwise a person goes back to normal tax assessment.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
We have PoA for a relative with dementia.
She wanted to stay at home as long as possible.
Luckily she is minted but the at home care of 10 hours a day cost £9000 a month, £108,000 a year.
On top of that were food, utility bills, heating, gardening, house maintenance, tv licence, Sky, broadband, etc..
She has just had to go into a care home.
It is costing her £5000 a month, £60,000 a year.
She is saving a fortune compared to being at home now.
Click to expand...
That is a lot of inheritance disappearing...
 
mosssideblue said:
I understand that there will be variations but I mustn’t be explaining myself properly. If a care home has 20 patients taking in £1.2m annually costing that much to operate?
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Depending on a number of factors such as how much you pay the management and staff which is a big part of a care homes operating costs I would be expecting it to make a profit before tax of somewhere between £200k-£300k per year depending on how much debt it is carrying.
 
halfmist said:
Depending on a number of factors such as how much you pay the management and staff which is a big part of a care homes operating costs I would be expecting it to make a profit before tax of somewhere between £200k-£300k per year depending on how much debt it is carrying.
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Thanks for that. I’ve been guilty (again) of derailing a specific thread to discuss this, so will leave it there
 
SilverFox2 said:
Regarding retirement tax code allowance being less than the pension perhaps how other countries do this could be used.
For instance Spain does not tax its pensioners if the gross pay is less than about 20K euros. So a couple of pensioners could earn up to about 40K per anum without paying tax when tax assessed individually.
The only drawback is it must be just one pension source per person. Otherwise a person goes back to normal tax assessment.
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If we are talking about income a couple in England can earn jointly £35140 without paying any tax, slightly higher for those born before 1948 so it is not that far below £40k
 
GazM said:
No idea but having checked this for my ageing parents they're eye-watering. I've always felt that we should be contributing more tax towards an end of life/aged care plan so that this is covered. If we don't need it so be it but we should all be adding to the pot for the common good.
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They put a social care tax on your council tax years ago around 5%
 
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