UK State Pension

mosssideblue said:
SP no matter how much shouldn’t use up any allowance imo
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The minimum wage currently in the UK is £23795, take home pay after tax is £20652. If you made the state pension not use any of the tax free allowance, pensioners would get £11502 + £12570 tax free which is £24072.

Should someone in full time work be significantly worse off than someone getting effectively a state benefit ?
 
Kompany Car said:
The minimum wage currently in the UK is £23795, take home pay after tax is £20652. If you made the state pension not use any of the tax free allowance, pensioners would get £11502 + £12570 tax free which is £24072.

Should someone in full time work be significantly worse off than someone getting effectively a state benefit ?
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No I'd go far as to say it's morally wrong.

People grafting full time. Let's face it, there isn't any real job (i.e. excluding people paying themselves nmw for tax purposes) on minimum wage or a bit above it that isn't a fucking slog nowadays.

Someone sat at home in a mortgage free property or who is able to go on holidays overseas 3-6 months of the year doesn't need that level of income and we'd bankrupt the state and every generation from X to zoomers and their successors if we ever tried to do it.

Below is a general point not directed at you.

The state pension was originally introduced in Edwardian times, for people no longer able to work due to age related illness to have a short period before a dignified death.

Fortunately Things have changed but
It's still only to support people to have a basic standard of living not for round the world cruises and holiday homes in the Costas.
 
Kompany Car said:
The minimum wage currently in the UK is £23795, take home pay after tax is £20652. If you made the state pension not use any of the tax free allowance, pensioners would get £11502 + £12570 tax free which is £24072.

Should someone in full time work be significantly worse off than someone getting effectively a state benefit ?
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You have lost me. Where is a pensioner getting a take home so of 24k?
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
No I'd go far as to say it's morally wrong.

People grafting full time. Let's face it, there isn't any real job (i.e. excluding people paying themselves nmw for tax purposes) on minimum wage or a bit above it that isn't a fucking slog nowadays.

Someone sat at home in a mortgage free property or who is able to go on holidays overseas 3-6 months of the year doesn't need that level of income and we'd bankrupt the state and every generation from X to zoomers and their successors if we ever tried to do it.

Below is a general point not directed at you.

The state pension was originally introduced in Edwardian times, for people no longer able to work due to age related illness to have a short period before a dignified death.

Fortunately Things have changed but
It's still only to support people to have a basic standard of living not for round the world cruises and holiday homes in the Costas.
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You obviously are not a pensioner
 
mosssideblue said:
You have lost me. Where is a pensioner getting a take home so of 24k?
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Your idiotic suggestion that the state pension should never be added to taxable income means that at £12K would be added to the tax free threshold of £12K giving them a tax free income of £24 K from all sources.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
The pension is a state benefit.

www.gov.uk

Income Tax: introduction

Income Tax is a tax you pay on your earnings - find out about what it is, how you pay and how to check you're paying the right amount using HMRC's tax calculator.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
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I think a lot would argue it is an entitlement as it is paid on the basis of what you have directly put in to it. No other state benefit works on that principle. Also it is not means tested unlike the vast majority of of other state benifits.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
No I'd go far as to say it's morally wrong.

People grafting full time. Let's face it, there isn't any real job (i.e. excluding people paying themselves nmw for tax purposes) on minimum wage or a bit above it that isn't a fucking slog nowadays.

Someone sat at home in a mortgage free property or who is able to go on holidays overseas 3-6 months of the year doesn't need that level of income and we'd bankrupt the state and every generation from X to zoomers and their successors if we ever tried to do it.

Below is a general point not directed at you.

The state pension was originally introduced in Edwardian times, for people no longer able to work due to age related illness to have a short period before a dignified death.

Fortunately Things have changed but
It's still only to support people to have a basic standard of living not for round the world cruises and holiday homes in the Costas.
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That was the whole idea of the benefit cap, currently £22,020 for a family unless they are exempt via PIP etc.

The Pension was brough in the same budget (or budgets needed) that gave the MPs a £400 wage, under the Liberals, but the Tory Lords kept rejecting it. They said if they granted pensions it would "bring down the fabric of the empire", not missed was the Irish Nationalists role in helping the Liberals push it all through with new parliament act.
 
mosssideblue said:
You put it better than I did:) yes, using it up
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Technically it isn’t. State pension as with all pensions count towards total income. The personal allowance is then deducted from total income utilising earned income such as salary, pensions and rental profit etc in no particular order. If there is any unearned income eg savings, dividends etc is utilised at the end because of the savings rate and dividends are taxed at different rates than other income. Separate rules apply to capital gains but it come back in to the calculation when higher rates of income tax come come in to play . The way the allowances are allocated are deliberately separated to give the maximum benefit to the tax payer with HMRC’s blessing. That is a very simplification of the system and hence even Accountants use software to do the calculations.
 
The reason we don’t pay a decent state pension is because, as with everything else, we choose not to.
And, of course, the reason we choose not to is so that a few rich people can have even more, with pension tax relief being one of the most nefarious examples.

Someone earning £200,000 per year (well inside the top 1%) has a take home pay of £117,000 (£2,253 per week).

If that same person pays 30% pension, there take home drops to £84,000 or £1618 per week).

So, they’ve put £60,000 into a pension and that has ‘cost’ them £33,000 whist we, the tax payers, are now getting £27,000 less in tax.
 
halfmist said:
I think a lot would argue it is an entitlement as it is paid on the basis of what you have directly put in to it. No other state benefit works on that principle. Also it is not means tested unlike the vast majority of of other state benifits.
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Although that’s not quite right.

You get NI credits whilst claiming benefits and, as long as you sign on, even when you’re not eligible for benefits.
You can also have been unemployed since school but, as long as you’ve signed on every week/fortnight or month, you’ll get the basic state pension.

And, of course, there are 6 benefits that aren’t means tested and 7 that are but, when you include prescriptions and bus passes, it’s 8 that aren’t and still only 7 that are.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
The reason we don’t pay a decent state pension is because, as with everything else, we choose not to.
And, of course, the reason we choose not to is so that a few rich people can have even more, with pension tax relief being one of the most nefarious examples.

Someone earning £200,000 per year (well inside the top 1%) has a take home pay of £117,000 (£2,253 per week).

If that same person pays 30% pension, there take home drops to £84,000 or £1618 per week).

So, they’ve put £60,000 into a pension and that has ‘cost’ them £33,000 whist we, the tax payers, are now getting £27,000 less in tax.
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On the figures you have quoted, in a salary sacrifice switch, there is no limit for the Employers pension contribution although it counts towards the £60000 maximum relief to the employee. Unless the government change the whole system, the employee could agree to a £60000 reduction in salary and save 45% income tax on some of the top slice income. There would also be a saving on Ers and Ees NIC Contributions.
 
Scottyboi said:
I completely get that, was more thinking along the lines of people with no pension but in ok health. People might have no other choice but to have 3 generations under one roof due to finances.

Poor neighbour had a stroke a couple of years ago I've not seen him since, apparently his brother is going to be selling the house which will go towards my neighbours care bill. The social care crisis is a ticking time bomb.

What happened to the elderly in the 60s,70s,80s, how were they looked after or funded if they needed a care home?
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Can obviously only speak of my own family history with this;
In the 1910"s my great grandmother had to let her own mother go into the hospital/workhouse. Great Gran had a husband that worked and they had 7 children, but Great Gran had to continue working in the cotton mill.
Fast forward to late 1940's; my Gran was able to care for her own mother (see above) at home, until she died. Gran hadn't been working and Grandad's wage sufficed.
1970's....Great Aunt cared for her mother at home until she died. Great Aunt hadn't been working and her husband was able to support them all.
Since the 1980s none of my relations have been able to care for any elderly at home, as we all need to work.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
Although that’s not quite right.

You get NI credits whilst claiming benefits and, as long as you sign on, even when you’re not eligible for benefits.
You can also have been unemployed since school but, as long as you’ve signed on every week/fortnight or month, you’ll get the basic state pension.

And, of course, there are 6 benefits that aren’t means tested and 7 that are but, when you include prescriptions and bus passes, it’s 8 that aren’t and still only 7 that are.
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Yes and no . I was careful to say some, not all ,as regards state benefit’s means testing. The original poster said the state pension was a state benefit. Technically something paid out by the state that you benefit from is a state benefit. I was making the point about perception and entitlement which are subjective that make most, not all believe it is an entitlement they have paid in to.
 
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