UK State Pension

[flook]

Every Christmas I receive a £10 "Bonus" from the DWP. This payment was first introduced in 1972...and has never been increased since. IF it had increased inline with inflation then, today, it would be worth around £115.

£115 you say? sniff sniff ;)

 

[dickie davies]

I suppose the reality is, every occupation is valued by Society otherwise they wouldn’t have a job in the first place

 

[hilts]

Well I can only speak from personal experience having been at both ends of the spectrum.
We live in a Society where you are paid what somebody thinks your worth particularly in the non unionised private sector.
If you can bring to the table skills and talents that are rare Society values you rightly or wrongly higher than someone who is easy to replace.
You either are born with a particular skill or you work harder than others to obtain it.
Many of those who you would classify as rich and I probably fall into that category have put everything on the line, subsequently failed ( over 90 % of new businesses last less than 12 months) brushed themselves down and started again taking lessons learned from those mistakes with them.
There is no Government Agency that says it’s a shame, never mind, here is your money back do you want to start again.
So wealth is something that is earned by those who haven’t gone down the steady Eddie weekly or monthly wage guaranteed approach and many would be reluctant to hand back some of that wealth to the State via higher taxes.

I would like to know what rare skill and talent the 32 million a year ceo of a poor performing Boeing has over anyone on a low wage, what particular talent did Liz Truss have to become PM of a country.

Let's take a local lad Phil Foden, born with a talent, 99.9,% of the population could spend every waking minute practicing football and they would get nowhere near.

So he's very lucky and fair play, if football wasn't so popular and we weren't so daft as to pay footballers 200k a week what would his options be? If clubs paid 50k a week, 10k a week or 1k a week he would be doing the same job. The only reason he isn't on 200 times less per week is luck.

He could have been very good at table tennis instead but he wouldn't be earning much from that.

You think someday who opens their gob to sing for the first time and sounds like an angel rather than a drowned cat deserves to be fabulously wealthy. You think the Hours Taylor Swift puts in should equate to hundreds of millions of quid?

BTW plenty of failed business men and women have left people in the shit and bankrupt then started another business.

I'm not a communist by a long way it's the amounts that really can't be justified.

 

[mosssideblue]

could the two swap roles and be successful? Does a cleaner study for a decade to do his job? So yes, obviously the surgeon should be paid more

As I said, could be a fascinating topic. Without a cleaner or bin men etc, surgeons are redundant. I do agree with you however on pay.
As someone posted, all jobs have a value to society, and we tend to underestimate many of them

 

[halfmist]

could the two swap roles and be successful? Does a cleaner study for a decade to do his job? So yes, obviously the surgeon should be paid more

That is it in a nutshell. The more time, effort, and skill it takes to qualify in a particular skill the less the supply of it. The excess amount rewarded in remuneration for possessing such skills is called economic rent by economists.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Well I can only speak from personal experience having been at both ends of the spectrum.
We live in a Society where you are paid what somebody thinks your worth particularly in the non unionised private sector.
If you can bring to the table skills and talents that are rare Society values you rightly or wrongly higher than someone who is easy to replace.
You either are born with a particular skill or you work harder than others to obtain it.
Many of those who you would classify as rich and I probably fall into that category have put everything on the line, subsequently failed ( over 90 % of new businesses last less than 12 months) brushed themselves down and started again taking lessons learned from those mistakes with them.
There is no Government Agency that says it’s a shame, never mind, here is your money back do you want to start again.
So wealth is something that is earned by those who haven’t gone down the steady Eddie weekly or monthly wage guaranteed approach and many would be reluctant to hand back some of that wealth to the State via higher taxes.

Brushed themselves down and started again eh?

Leaving dozens of creditors and suppliers struggling if not bankrupt by their actions.

Failed business owners should be personally responsible for their business debts.
Otherwise you get twats like Gordon Ramsay, quite happy to see suppliers go bust when he shuts down a restaurant now swanning around in a £2.5 million Aston Martin.

 

[halfmist]

I would like to know what rare skill and talent the 32 million a year ceo of a poor performing Boeing has over anyone on a low wage, what particular talent did Liz Truss have to become PM of a country.

Let's take a local lad Phil Foden, born with a talent, 99.9,% of the population could spend every waking minute practicing football and they would get nowhere near.

So he's very lucky and fair play, if football wasn't so popular and we weren't so daft as to pay footballers 200k a week what would his options be? If clubs paid 50k a week, 10k a week or 1k a week he would be doing the same job. The only reason he isn't on 200 times less per week is luck.

He could have been very good at table tennis instead but he wouldn't be earning much from that.

You think someday who opens their gob to sing for the first time and sounds like an angel rather than a drowned cat deserves to be fabulously wealthy. You think the Hours Taylor Swift puts in should equate to hundreds of millions of quid?

BTW plenty of failed business men and women have left people in the shit and bankrupt then started another business.

I'm not a communist by a long way it's the amounts that really can't be justified.

I think what can’t be overlooked when making such comparisons and we are talking individuals, so a very tiny sample size to make the point is, how did they get there in the first place.
They are usually at the helm of very large private companies.
Private companies are owned by its shareholders including pension funds.
Their remit is to increase shareholder value and the CEO is incentivised accordingly.
If their contract says for eg increase the value of the company by say £300m and the company achieves this then the shareholders .. including the pension companies are quite happy to see him get a £3m bonus.
Ultimately the decision is theirs .
The tax system does its bit for Society by taking 45% of it which, using the emotive occupation nurses,that is a hell of money to help pay for them

 

[Pedestrian]

This could be a fascinating discussion. For example, does a surgeon deserve to earn more than a cleaner. I think many would say yes, but without the cleaner, the surgeon couldn’t do his job

The surgeon if needed could clean. The cleaner could not perform surgery.

 

[mosssideblue]

The surgeon if needed could clean. The cleaner could not perform surgery.

True, but there are plenty of trades that a surgeon is fully dependent on to do their job. I agree on surgeons being well paid, just making a case for their dependents

 

[mosssideblue]

Brushed themselves down and started again eh?

Leaving dozens of creditors and suppliers struggling if not bankrupt by their actions.

Failed business owners should be personally responsible for their business debts.
Otherwise you get twats like Gordon Ramsay, quite happy to see suppliers go bust when he shuts down a restaurant now swanning around in a £2.5 million Aston Martin.

GRIAC

 

[halfmist]

Brushed themselves down and started again eh?

Leaving dozens of creditors and suppliers struggling if not bankrupt by their actions.

Failed business owners should be personally responsible for their business debts.
Otherwise you get twats like Gordon Ramsay, quite happy to see suppliers go bust when he shuts down a restaurant now swanning around in a £2.5 million Aston Martin.

You have clearly never run a business.
You have to put everything on the line in the first place and the banks and finance companies insist each Director takes INDIVIDUAL responsibility for the debts.
You also jump to the conclusion that it is the directors fault the company went bust and not the actions of another business, economic conditions etc that caused it
In our case, not that it is any of your business it was a Public Company who decided they wanted modifications to a product we had manufactured for them after we had completed the order just before delivery .
They were happy to pay for the modifications but the original contract we had said, no stage payments to be made and payment in full on delivery.
The bank wouldn’t advance further funds to complete the modifications so we had no option but to close the company.
I hardly think that puts us in the Gordon Ramsay twats category and none of us were driving around in a £2.5m Aston Martin.
For the record my company car was sold to pay towards the company’s debts and my mode of transport for the next 2 years became a 5 year old Honda C 90 with a Sun newspaper Swales Out Sticker on the back box!

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Brushed themselves down and started again eh?

Leaving dozens of creditors and suppliers struggling if not bankrupt by their actions.

Failed business owners should be personally responsible for their business debts.
Otherwise you get twats like Gordon Ramsay, quite happy to see suppliers go bust when he shuts down a restaurant now swanning around in a £2.5 million Aston Martin.

That kind of misses the point of a limited company.

I'd imagine a large percentage of small business owners will have given personal guarantees to their lenders though.

 

[hilts]

I think what can’t be overlooked when making such comparisons and we are talking individuals, so a very tiny sample size to make the point is, how did they get there in the first place.
They are usually at the helm of very large private companies.
Private companies are owned by its shareholders including pension funds.
Their remit is to increase shareholder value and the CEO is incentivised accordingly.
If their contract says for eg increase the value of the company by say £300m and the company achieves this then the shareholders .. including the pension companies are quite happy to see him get a £3m bonus.
Ultimately the decision is theirs .
The tax system does its bit for Society by taking 45% of it which, using the emotive occupation nurses,that is a hell of money to help pay for them

You're not answering the question mate I know how supply and demand works, I know enough about capitalism.

What rare skills and work ethic does the CEO of Boeing have that justifies his 32.5 million salary. Same goes for Foden.

If the CEO of a company earned say a million would the guy not get out of bed for such a salary, would his replacement be Joey Essex

If football paid a grand a week what would Foden be doing,? He would be playing football for a grand a week.

A 32 million salary for a mutil national company doesn't really have a huge effect on the profits or the share price or shareholder dividends.

He doesn't get that money because he's worth it, because he has a unique talent. He gets it just because companies over pay because there isn't any big reason not to. All the top boys taking the cream. The higher the ceo salary the likelihood the levels below get a nice cut of the cake. Until.you get to the workers on the shop floor then moneys too tight to mention. Guess they don't possess the unique talent.

Deserving has fuck all to do with it, no-one deserves that amount of wealth.

You would hope the jammy fuckers would at least pay their taxes. A lot of rich people do feel that guilt/realise they got lucky in life and are generous with their money for charities etc.....

Good luck to them, its the other fuckers who have smoke blown up their arse for so long thar they actually believe the hype.

Is there anything so cringeworthy when people behind the camera with great skills on film sets have to call the actors the 'talent'

Cheeky fuckers:-)

 

[Brunswick Blue]

It's been used to fund other things since it's expansion in 1946 but it's only for ringfenced benefits? Just repeat that back to yourself and you will realise why you are wrong.

National insurance is just a second income tax, but the contributions are useful for determining and measuring eligibility for pensions and other contributory benefits.

Successive governments haven't been stealing from pensioners' protected coffers all these years.

I think you may have missed the original posters point the informationn was taken from Gov.uk

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I think you may have missed the original posters point the informationn was taken from Gov.uk

No I didn't miss the point. It just wasn't persuasive.

As I said, it's never been the point that the fund was to be solely used for benefits. Governments have discretion to raid that so called piggy bank and have always exercised that discretion. Conversely if the fund was in deficit, the expectation would be that the government topped it up.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Brushed themselves down and started again eh?

Leaving dozens of creditors and suppliers struggling if not bankrupt by their actions.

Failed business owners should be personally responsible for their business debts.
Otherwise you get twats like Gordon Ramsay, quite happy to see suppliers go bust when he shuts down a restaurant now swanning around in a £2.5 million Aston Martin.

Like the twats caused the crash in 2008!

 

[halfmist]

You're not answering the question mate I know how supply and demand works, I know enough about capitalism.

What rare skills and work ethic does the CEO of Boeing have that justifies his 32.5 million salary. Same goes for Foden.

If the CEO of a company earned say a million would the guy not get out of bed for such a salary, would his replacement be Joey Essex

If football paid a grand a week what would Foden be doing,? He would be playing football for a grand a week.

A 32 million salary for a mutil national company doesn't really have a huge effect on the profits or the share price or shareholder dividends.

He doesn't get that money because he's worth it, because he has a unique talent. He gets it just because companies over pay because there isn't any big reason not to. All the top boys taking the cream. The higher the ceo salary the likelihood the levels below get a nice cut of the cake. Until.you get to the workers on the shop floor then moneys too tight to mention. Guess they don't possess the unique talent.

Deserving has fuck all to do with it, no-one deserves that amount of wealth.

You would hope the jammy fuckers would at least pay their taxes. A lot of rich people do feel that guilt/realise they got lucky in life and are generous with their money for charities etc.....

Good luck to them, its the other fuckers who have smoke blown up their arse for so long thar they actually believe the hype.

Is there anything so cringeworthy when people behind the camera with great skills on film sets have to call the actors the 'talent'

Cheeky fuckers:-)

I suppose the only real answer really is, that is how the world works and it isn’t going to change in my lifetime that’s for sure, if anything it is going to get worse. One can only dream as to what they do with the equivalent of a lottery win going in to their bank account each month

 

[hilts]

The surgeon if needed could clean. The cleaner could not perform surgery.

I'm not sure anyone is saying or has said a surgeon should get the same as a cleaner

 

[Pedestrian]

You have clearly never run a business.
You have to put everything on the line in the first place and the banks and finance companies insist each Director takes INDIVIDUAL responsibility for the debts.
You also jump to the conclusion that it is the directors fault the company went bust and not the actions of another business, economic conditions etc that caused it
In our case, not that it is any of your business it was a Public Company who decided they wanted modifications to a product we had manufactured for them after we had completed the order just before delivery .
They were happy to pay for the modifications but the original contract we had said, no stage payments to be made and payment in full on delivery.
The bank wouldn’t advance further funds to complete the modifications so we had no option but to close the company.
I hardly think that puts us in the Gordon Ramsay twats category and none of us were driving around in a £2.5m Aston Martin.
For the record my company car was sold to pay towards the company’s debts and my mode of transport for the next 2 years became a 5 year old Honda C 90 with a Sun newspaper Swales Out Sticker on the back box!

How the fuck did you manage with a 5yr old car.

 

[hilts]

I suppose the only real answer really is, that is how the world works and it isn’t going to change in my lifetime that’s for sure, if anything it is going to get worse. One can only dream as to what they do with the equivalent of a lottery win going in to their bank account each month

Aye and I know how the world works I'm just not having people claiming the stupidly rich are somehow deserving.
They can take the piss just don't expect a round of applause.whilst doing it.

City players excepted we all have our irrational moments:-)