United thread 2012/13 (inc merged IPO thread)

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Re: It's Going up, It's Going Down, It's erm.... Flatlining

jrb said:
Prestwich_Blue said:
jrb said:
From what I'm led to believe and have read, United have £70mill in cash, plus £40mill from season ticket sales?
Be lucky to have £60m (with S/T money) in the 2012 accounts I reckon. That's compared to the £120-150m they've had in previous years.

Not crossing swords with you PB as you would cut me to ribbons on the subject matter. ;-)

The guff relating to the share offer stated.

As of June 30, 2012, we had approximately £70 million of cash and cash equivalents and approximately £437 million of borrowings outstanding.

I'm s*** at guessing and maths, but 52,000 season tickets x by £800(average), gives roughgly £40mill.(depending on...)

That's where the £110mill figure comes from.

Obviously I stand corrected. Feel free.

They will have had that amount however it is just the way that their accounts work it is the highest figure they can use.

It could read hypothetically the next day.

As of July 1st 2012 (now we have paid some bills) we had approximately £20 million of cash and cash equivalents.

It's all accounting bullshit (not blue accountants)<br /><br />-- Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:41 pm --<br /><br />
The Future's Blue said:
Q: Whe are Chevvy paying the Rags 18 mil for the next 2 seasons when they are getting no frontline exposure?

A. Backhander, I guess!



Well done Chevvy, I'll never touch a product you'll ever have an alliance with.

The fact that we are discussing the deal and you are mentioning their name is an example of the exposure they have already had out of it.

As for why they have paid upfront I would imagine it because the glazers needed it and that they will have had parties willing to pay that amount in the wings.
 
Re: It's Going up, It's Going Down, It's erm.... Flatlining

mindmyp's_n_q's said:
jrb said:
Prestwich_Blue said:
Be lucky to have £60m (with S/T money) in the 2012 accounts I reckon. That's compared to the £120-150m they've had in previous years.

Not crossing swords with you PB as you would cut me to ribbons on the subject matter. ;-)

The guff relating to the share offer stated.

As of June 30, 2012, we had approximately £70 million of cash and cash equivalents and approximately £437 million of borrowings outstanding.

I'm s*** at guessing and maths, but 52,000 season tickets x by £800(average), gives roughgly £40mill.(depending on...)

That's where the £110mill figure comes from.

Obviously I stand corrected. Feel free.

They will have had that amount however it is just the way that their accounts work it is the highest figure they can use.

It could read hypothetically the next day.

As of July 1st 2012 (now we have paid some bills) we had approximately £20 million of cash and cash equivalents.

It's all accounting bullshit (not blue accountants)

Point accepted.

I'm sure the whole sale is hid behind smoke and mirrors, but hasn't there got to be some honesty and integrity in the IPO offering?

Surely the Glazer's can't state £70mill if they haven't really got those cash reserves.
 
Re: It's Going up, It's Going Down, It's erm.... Flatlining

jrb said:
mindmyp's_n_q's said:
jrb said:
Not crossing swords with you PB as you would cut me to ribbons on the subject matter. ;-)

The guff relating to the share offer stated.



I'm s*** at guessing and maths, but 52,000 season tickets x by £800(average), gives roughgly £40mill.(depending on...)

That's where the £110mill figure comes from.

Obviously I stand corrected. Feel free.

They will have had that amount however it is just the way that their accounts work it is the highest figure they can use.

It could read hypothetically the next day.

As of July 1st 2012 (now we have paid some bills) we had approximately £20 million of cash and cash equivalents.

It's all accounting bullshit (not blue accountants)

Point accepted.

I'm sure the whole sale is hid behind smoke and mirrors, but hasn't there got to be some honesty and integrity in the IPO offering?

Surely the Glazer's can't state £70mill if they haven't really got those cash reserves.

They can as they will have had that amount.

If you get paid on the 1st £2000 and someone ask's what have you got in your account on the 1st (assuming you were at £0) then you would answer £2000 if the next day you had a direct debit of £3000 that means nothing you were telling the truth at the time. That's why the statement on it's own means nothing and it's the reason for all the other figures they give.
 
Re: It's Going up, It's Going Down, It's erm.... Flatlining

MANCHESTER United shares are massively overpriced, a top US broker claimed last night.
Shares in the club were valued at $14 when they were launched on Wall Street last Friday — but the broker claims they are actually worth less than $5 (£3).
Owners Joel and Avram Glazer made £75million when Man Utd floated on the New York Stock Exchange at a value of £1.5billion.
But at $5 a share the club would be worth little more than £530million.
The American broker, the Private Company Financial Data Authority, said: “Manchester’s overpricing by some 280 per cent has no reasonable economic basis.”
The shares hold no voting rights and offer little chance of a dividend.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/4486305/Man-Utd-shares-alert-as-broker-claims-they-are-not-worth-half-of-launch-price.html#ixzz23V3iNZ36" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... z23V3iNZ36</a>

It is from The Sun...
 
Re: It's Going up, It's Going Down, It's erm.... Flatlining

So if they had bought RVP on June 30th, they could have afforded the£22m transfer fee plus a million a month for the next 3-5 years?
 
Now you see it Now you don't

Looks like our old pal Malc and his lovely family are up to there old tricks Manchester United aims for simpler reporting requirements

13/08/12
Pat Sweet

Manchester United may opt for a less rigorous accounting regime now on offer in the US, according to the football club’s notes to its US stock market listing last week.

The club said it may seek to make use of more relaxed US reporting and auditing requirements which are normally applicable to small business start ups.

Under the US Jumpstart Our Business Startups Act (JOBS), which became law in April, businesses which are deemed to be ‘emerging growth companies’ are allowed to make more limited financial disclosures compared to other US publicly quoted companies.

These exemptions to reporting requirements apply to companies with less than $1bn (£638m) in annual revenue. The provisions include a requirement to have only two years of audited financial statements and only two years of related Management's Discussion and Analysis of Financial Condition and Results of Operations disclosure. Companies are also not required to file quarterly reports.

In its IPO filing, Manchester United said: ‘We may take advantage of these provisions for up to five years or such earlier time that we are no longer an emerging growth company.’

However, the company said it would opt out of another provision of the JOBS Act that would have allowed it an extended period of time to comply with new or revised accounting standards. Manchester United said: ‘We are choosing to “opt out” of this provision and, as a result, we will comply with new or revised accounting standards as required when they are adopted. This decision to opt out of the extended transition period is irrevocable.’

Manchester United’s debut on Wall Street represents the largest sports listing on record, but has not proved an immediate success. The shares were originally going to be priced at between $16-$20 but this was cut to $14 a share late on Thursday following negative comments from analysts.


So they fleece desperate investors with worthless shares and then use the US relaxed account reporting to hide where all the cash has gone that they have raised. Sounds like a plan to me keep up the good work fella's you're doing a superb job.
 
Simon English: If Man United shares get any lower, expect Glazers to grab first chance of an exit

By SIMON ENGLISH



Tuesday 14 August 2012

Outlook How low do Manchester United shares have to go before someone comes in with another takeover bid that the much (and fairly) maligned Glazer family decide offers a good chance to take the money and run?
New York outfit PrivCo says the stock is worth no more than $5 a share. That compares with a float price of $14 that only stayed at that level on the first day of trading thanks to emergency support from the brokers behind the deal.
There's still a long way to fall to meet the doomsday prediction, but funny things happen to stocks once sentiment turns defiantly against them. Companies with strong management and supportive long-term shareholders can withstand such travails. Our job is to run the business, the stock market's job is to value it, the bosses can say. We are doing a better job than it is and will prove so in time.
This doesn't apply at Man U, a business that has seen onfield success continue despite turmoil off it. No one thinks the Glazers have any interest in football or the desires of the fans. They want to make cash, and have done so.
All of which gives the club's float a Facebook feel. Its expectation of future value is based on the 660 million fans it claims across the world.
These are mostly followers in Asia that buy knock-off replica shirts and cheer on Wayne Rooney via pirate TV signals.
Like Facebook clicks on anything but advertisements, it is hard to see how this fandom turns into big dollars for Manchester United.
At $5 a share, Man U is worth about £510m, which compares with debt of towards £400m.
If that were a house, you'd say it was heading towards negative equity. That's the point at which grateful owners get out to anyone willing to take the property off their hands. Now, there are complicating issues, such as the fact that the 10 per cent of equity floated has no voting rights, which makes a bid trickier to pull off. But that's not insurmountable, especially if the seller were keen to move on...
Two years ago The Red Knights, a group of wealthy fans that includes Goldman Sachs' Jim O'Neill, weighed a bid but were put off by the price.
For the next little while, the underwriters will keep putting a floor under the shares, supporting the price to avoid embarrassment. When this period lapses it will be more than of passing interest what happens to the stock price.
The Red Knights might have one eye on it themselves.
 
waspish said:
Simon English: If Man United shares get any lower, expect Glazers to grab first chance of an exit

By SIMON ENGLISH



Tuesday 14 August 2012

Outlook How low do Manchester United shares have to go before someone comes in with another takeover bid that the much (and fairly) maligned Glazer family decide offers a good chance to take the money and run?
New York outfit PrivCo says the stock is worth no more than $5 a share. That compares with a float price of $14 that only stayed at that level on the first day of trading thanks to emergency support from the brokers behind the deal.
There's still a long way to fall to meet the doomsday prediction, but funny things happen to stocks once sentiment turns defiantly against them. Companies with strong management and supportive long-term shareholders can withstand such travails. Our job is to run the business, the stock market's job is to value it, the bosses can say. We are doing a better job than it is and will prove so in time.
This doesn't apply at Man U, a business that has seen onfield success continue despite turmoil off it. No one thinks the Glazers have any interest in football or the desires of the fans. They want to make cash, and have done so.
All of which gives the club's float a Facebook feel. Its expectation of future value is based on the 660 million fans it claims across the world.
These are mostly followers in Asia that buy knock-off replica shirts and cheer on Wayne Rooney via pirate TV signals.
Like Facebook clicks on anything but advertisements, it is hard to see how this fandom turns into big dollars for Manchester United.
At $5 a share, Man U is worth about £510m, which compares with debt of towards £400m.
If that were a house, you'd say it was heading towards negative equity. That's the point at which grateful owners get out to anyone willing to take the property off their hands. Now, there are complicating issues, such as the fact that the 10 per cent of equity floated has no voting rights, which makes a bid trickier to pull off. But that's not insurmountable, especially if the seller were keen to move on...
Two years ago The Red Knights, a group of wealthy fans that includes Goldman Sachs' Jim O'Neill, weighed a bid but were put off by the price.
For the next little while, the underwriters will keep putting a floor under the shares, supporting the price to avoid embarrassment. When this period lapses it will be more than of passing interest what happens to the stock price.
The Red Knights might have one eye on it themselves.

Why would the Glazers sell for less than they think it's worth, irrespective of the market value, if they can continue to use it as a cash cow?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Why would the Glazers sell for less than they think it's worth, irrespective of the market value, if they can continue to use it as a cash cow?

Exactly what I thought
When Malc and his family move on, they will have asset stripped the rags and will sell at a price plus the debt
 
The Pink Panther said:
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Why would the Glazers sell for less than they think it's worth, irrespective of the market value, if they can continue to use it as a cash cow?

Exactly what I thought
When Malc and his family move on, they will have asset stripped the rags and will sell at a price plus the debt

Agreed Gord and PP, they'll move on when they are good and ready, they may look an odd bunch of Clampetts but business wise they are very astute, they must be, look at how many times knowledgeable people have predicted the shit hitting the fan (to some degree) and yet they manage to pull something out of the bag.
 
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