United thread 2012/13 (inc merged IPO thread)

[Anonymous]

Re: United thread 2012/13.

Wonder if PB has heard back from the SEC yet?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: United thread 2012/13.

Not yet but just been looking at some figures and if I'm right then it's no wonder the Glazers don't want investors to see their 2012 accounts, particularly the cash flow statement.

To try to make it as simple as possible, at the end of March 2011 they had "used" £117.3m cash in their operations. That's more paid out than came in. In June 2011, in their year end accounts that figure was down to £40.8m used. That suggests that the cash they received in their fourth quarter last year from the CL, PL, season tickets, etc was a net £76.5m (and remember they got to the CL final).

In March 2012, the cash "used" in their operations was £32.2m but they won't get anything like the net £76.5m in their fourth quarter due to going out the CL. so let's assume it's half that they receive (£38.25m). Add that to the cash used (which is negative) and this gives them cash generated from operations of £6m. The cash they've already spent this financial year on finance costs, players and other capital purchases is £92.5m.

That means overall they will have paid out £86.5m of the cash they had at the start of the financial year, which was £150m, leaving them with £63.5m cash at the end of the 2011/12 financial year. Now that still sounds a lot but they've always shown year-end cash reserves of between £120m and £150m for the last few years so they've halved their normal cash pile. As football clubs get relatively little cash in during the season, that's the "fat" they have to live off for the season and it has to cover their wages (£135m?), bond interest (£40m) and other operating expenses.

It's no wonder the Glazers are desperate for cash and also why they need to try to get it before people see the 2012 accounts and just how much cash they've spunked away. I've said before that financially they're running to stand still and their exit from the CL has stopped them running.

 

[samharris]

Re: United thread 2012/13.

Not yet but just been looking at some figures and if I'm right then it's no wonder the Glazers don't want investors to see their 2012 accounts, particularly the cash flow statement.

To try to make it as simple as possible, at the end of March 2011 they had "used" £117.3m cash in their operations. That's more paid out than came in. In June 2011, in their year end accounts that figure was down to £40.8m used. That suggests that the cash they received in their fourth quarter last year from the CL, PL, season tickets, etc was a net £76.5m (and remember they got to the CL final).

In March 2012, the cash "used" in their operations was £32.2m but they won't get anything like the net £76.5m in their fourth quarter due to going out the CL. so let's assume it's half that they receive (£38.25m). Add that to the cash used (which is negative) and this gives them cash generated from operations of £6m. The cash they've already spent this financial year on finance costs, players and other capital purchases is £92.5m.

That means overall they will have paid out £86.5m of the cash they had at the start of the financial year, which was £150m, leaving them with £63.5m cash at the end of the 2011/12 financial year. Now that still sounds a lot but they've always shown year-end cash reserves of between £120m and £150m for the last few years so they've halved their normal cash pile. As football clubs get relatively little cash in during the season, that's the "fat" they have to live off for the season and it has to cover their wages (£135m?), bond interest (£40m) and other operating expenses.

It's no wonder the Glazers are desperate for cash and also why they need to try to get it before people see the 2012 accounts and just how much cash they've spunked away. I've said before that financially they're running to stand still and their exit from the CL has stopped them running.

Perhaps someone should tell them about Wonga.com and their sliders..
we need a covert poster like ono to go on sad cafe and post that for them...ARF !!

 

[ForzaMancini]

Re: United thread 2012/13.

Haha over on ragcafe there is a lot of rags trying to accuse City of having glory supporters and all being ex-chelsea fans. The funny thing is, not one of these fans locations is in England and they themselves would only have supported Utd because they were the best team in England.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: United thread 2012/13.

Not yet but just been looking at some figures and if I'm right then it's no wonder the Glazers don't want investors to see their 2012 accounts, particularly the cash flow statement.

To try to make it as simple as possible, at the end of March 2011 they had "used" £117.3m cash in their operations. That's more paid out than came in. In June 2011, in their year end accounts that figure was down to £40.8m used. That suggests that the cash they received in their fourth quarter last year from the CL, PL, season tickets, etc was a net £76.5m (and remember they got to the CL final).

In March 2012, the cash "used" in their operations was £32.2m but they won't get anything like the net £76.5m in their fourth quarter due to going out the CL. so let's assume it's half that they receive (£38.25m). Add that to the cash used (which is negative) and this gives them cash generated from operations of £6m. The cash they've already spent this financial year on finance costs, players and other capital purchases is £92.5m.

That means overall they will have paid out £86.5m of the cash they had at the start of the financial year, which was £150m, leaving them with £63.5m cash at the end of the 2011/12 financial year. Now that still sounds a lot but they've always shown year-end cash reserves of between £120m and £150m for the last few years so they've halved their normal cash pile. As football clubs get relatively little cash in during the season, that's the "fat" they have to live off for the season and it has to cover their wages (£135m?), bond interest (£40m) and other operating expenses.

It's no wonder the Glazers are desperate for cash and also why they need to try to get it before people see the 2012 accounts and just how much cash they've spunked away. I've said before that financially they're running to stand still and their exit from the CL has stopped them running.

Does that mean then the douts/suspicions you raised to the SEC are accurate?

I have been worried they might come out of this pretty well given what I read on Swiss Ramble. Swiss also namechecked AndersRed as being a good read too but I didn't bother with that given it would likely be saying similar.

I really hope they are in the mire and have to go through the lean 44 years we went through. Would be interesting to see how long they (their muppet, black clothed, green & yellow scarved, goggle wearing hard men that is) stick around for.

 

[coulsonblue]

Im scared

<a class="postlink" href="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1253324-leighton-baines-addition-of-everton-star-will-lead-manchester-united-to-title" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1253 ... d-to-title</a>

lol

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: United thread 2012/13.

Not yet but just been looking at some figures and if I'm right then it's no wonder the Glazers don't want investors to see their 2012 accounts, particularly the cash flow statement.

To try to make it as simple as possible, at the end of March 2011 they had "used" £117.3m cash in their operations. That's more paid out than came in. In June 2011, in their year end accounts that figure was down to £40.8m used. That suggests that the cash they received in their fourth quarter last year from the CL, PL, season tickets, etc was a net £76.5m (and remember they got to the CL final).

In March 2012, the cash "used" in their operations was £32.2m but they won't get anything like the net £76.5m in their fourth quarter due to going out the CL. so let's assume it's half that they receive (£38.25m). Add that to the cash used (which is negative) and this gives them cash generated from operations of £6m. The cash they've already spent this financial year on finance costs, players and other capital purchases is £92.5m.

That means overall they will have paid out £86.5m of the cash they had at the start of the financial year, which was £150m, leaving them with £63.5m cash at the end of the 2011/12 financial year. Now that still sounds a lot but they've always shown year-end cash reserves of between £120m and £150m for the last few years so they've halved their normal cash pile. As football clubs get relatively little cash in during the season, that's the "fat" they have to live off for the season and it has to cover their wages (£135m?), bond interest (£40m) and other operating expenses.

It's no wonder the Glazers are desperate for cash and also why they need to try to get it before people see the 2012 accounts and just how much cash they've spunked away. I've said before that financially they're running to stand still and their exit from the CL has stopped them running.

Does that mean then the douts/suspicions you raised to the SEC are accurate?

I have been worried they might come out of this pretty well given what I read on Swiss Ramble. Swiss also namechecked AndersRed as being a good read too but I didn't bother with that given it would likely be saying similar.

I really hope they are in the mire and have to go through the lean 44 years we went through. Would be interesting to see how long they (their muppet, black clothed, green & yellow scarved, goggle wearing hard men that is) stick around for.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that they had £113m cash in March 2011 and only £25m in March 2012. So I don't think there's any doubt that the cash figure in June will be well down on the one the previous year. They've managed to mask it so far due to the Ronaldo sale, the refinancing of the PIK notes and getting to the CL final but they've not had any way of doing it this year and the accounts will show that, despite their mighty revenues, the cupboard is actually getting quite bare.

They could rely on the fact that Sky money will cover the shortfall after next year but without that debt paid off this financial year is likely to be a tough one for them cash wise.

I believe there might be some wider interest being shown in this story.

 

[Mancborn]

Re: United thread 2012/13.

Not yet but just been looking at some figures and if I'm right then it's no wonder the Glazers don't want investors to see their 2012 accounts, particularly the cash flow statement.

To try to make it as simple as possible, at the end of March 2011 they had "used" £117.3m cash in their operations. That's more paid out than came in. In June 2011, in their year end accounts that figure was down to £40.8m used. That suggests that the cash they received in their fourth quarter last year from the CL, PL, season tickets, etc was a net £76.5m (and remember they got to the CL final).

In March 2012, the cash "used" in their operations was £32.2m but they won't get anything like the net £76.5m in their fourth quarter due to going out the CL. so let's assume it's half that they receive (£38.25m). Add that to the cash used (which is negative) and this gives them cash generated from operations of £6m. The cash they've already spent this financial year on finance costs, players and other capital purchases is £92.5m.

That means overall they will have paid out £86.5m of the cash they had at the start of the financial year, which was £150m, leaving them with £63.5m cash at the end of the 2011/12 financial year. Now that still sounds a lot but they've always shown year-end cash reserves of between £120m and £150m for the last few years so they've halved their normal cash pile. As football clubs get relatively little cash in during the season, that's the "fat" they have to live off for the season and it has to cover their wages (£135m?), bond interest (£40m) and other operating expenses.

It's no wonder the Glazers are desperate for cash and also why they need to try to get it before people see the 2012 accounts and just how much cash they've spunked away. I've said before that financially they're running to stand still and their exit from the CL has stopped them running.

Does that mean then the douts/suspicions you raised to the SEC are accurate?

I have been worried they might come out of this pretty well given what I read on Swiss Ramble. Swiss also namechecked AndersRed as being a good read too but I didn't bother with that given it would likely be saying similar.

I really hope they are in the mire and have to go through the lean 44 years we went through. Would be interesting to see how long they (their muppet, black clothed, green & yellow scarved, goggle wearing hard men that is) stick around for.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that they had £113m cash in March 2011 and only £25m in March 2012. So I don't think there's any doubt that the cash figure in June will be well down on the one the previous year. They've managed to mask it so far due to the Ronaldo sale, the refinancing of the PIK notes and getting to the CL final but they've not had any way of doing it this year and the accounts will show that, despite their mighty revenues, the cupboard is actually getting quite bare.

They could rely on the fact that Sky money will cover the shortfall after next year but without that debt paid off this financial year is likely to be a tough one for them cash wise.

I believe there might be some wider interest being shown in this story.

Thank you PB for the sound analysis, cash flow is king and without enough of it your dead in the water, I will they be getting Baines on tick like we used to do?<br /><br />-- Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:10 pm --<br /><br />

Not yet but just been looking at some figures and if I'm right then it's no wonder the Glazers don't want investors to see their 2012 accounts, particularly the cash flow statement.

To try to make it as simple as possible, at the end of March 2011 they had "used" £117.3m cash in their operations. That's more paid out than came in. In June 2011, in their year end accounts that figure was down to £40.8m used. That suggests that the cash they received in their fourth quarter last year from the CL, PL, season tickets, etc was a net £76.5m (and remember they got to the CL final).

In March 2012, the cash "used" in their operations was £32.2m but they won't get anything like the net £76.5m in their fourth quarter due to going out the CL. so let's assume it's half that they receive (£38.25m). Add that to the cash used (which is negative) and this gives them cash generated from operations of £6m. The cash they've already spent this financial year on finance costs, players and other capital purchases is £92.5m.

That means overall they will have paid out £86.5m of the cash they had at the start of the financial year, which was £150m, leaving them with £63.5m cash at the end of the 2011/12 financial year. Now that still sounds a lot but they've always shown year-end cash reserves of between £120m and £150m for the last few years so they've halved their normal cash pile. As football clubs get relatively little cash in during the season, that's the "fat" they have to live off for the season and it has to cover their wages (£135m?), bond interest (£40m) and other operating expenses.

It's no wonder the Glazers are desperate for cash and also why they need to try to get it before people see the 2012 accounts and just how much cash they've spunked away. I've said before that financially they're running to stand still and their exit from the CL has stopped them running.

Does that mean then the douts/suspicions you raised to the SEC are accurate?

I have been worried they might come out of this pretty well given what I read on Swiss Ramble. Swiss also namechecked AndersRed as being a good read too but I didn't bother with that given it would likely be saying similar.

I really hope they are in the mire and have to go through the lean 44 years we went through. Would be interesting to see how long they (their muppet, black clothed, green & yellow scarved, goggle wearing hard men that is) stick around for.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that they had £113m cash in March 2011 and only £25m in March 2012. So I don't think there's any doubt that the cash figure in June will be well down on the one the previous year. They've managed to mask it so far due to the Ronaldo sale, the refinancing of the PIK notes and getting to the CL final but they've not had any way of doing it this year and the accounts will show that, despite their mighty revenues, the cupboard is actually getting quite bare.

They could rely on the fact that Sky money will cover the shortfall after next year but without that debt paid off this financial year is likely to be a tough one for them cash wise.

I believe there might be some wider interest being shown in this story.

Thank you PB for the sound analysis, cash flow is king and without enough of it your dead in the water, I will they be getting Baines on tick like we used to do?

 

[mcmanus]

Re: United thread 2012/13.

Not yet but just been looking at some figures and if I'm right then it's no wonder the Glazers don't want investors to see their 2012 accounts, particularly the cash flow statement.

To try to make it as simple as possible, at the end of March 2011 they had "used" £117.3m cash in their operations. That's more paid out than came in. In June 2011, in their year end accounts that figure was down to £40.8m used. That suggests that the cash they received in their fourth quarter last year from the CL, PL, season tickets, etc was a net £76.5m (and remember they got to the CL final).

In March 2012, the cash "used" in their operations was £32.2m but they won't get anything like the net £76.5m in their fourth quarter due to going out the CL. so let's assume it's half that they receive (£38.25m). Add that to the cash used (which is negative) and this gives them cash generated from operations of £6m. The cash they've already spent this financial year on finance costs, players and other capital purchases is £92.5m.

That means overall they will have paid out £86.5m of the cash they had at the start of the financial year, which was £150m, leaving them with £63.5m cash at the end of the 2011/12 financial year. Now that still sounds a lot but they've always shown year-end cash reserves of between £120m and £150m for the last few years so they've halved their normal cash pile. As football clubs get relatively little cash in during the season, that's the "fat" they have to live off for the season and it has to cover their wages (£135m?), bond interest (£40m) and other operating expenses.

It's no wonder the Glazers are desperate for cash and also why they need to try to get it before people see the 2012 accounts and just how much cash they've spunked away. I've said before that financially they're running to stand still and their exit from the CL has stopped them running.

Cheers PB for putting it in 'idiot's guide to......' standard. Still took me two reads.

Kinda want the Glazer's to find enough just to keep bleeding them dry.

 

[waspish]

United thread 2012/13.

Manchester United file out-of-date accounts for share offer

• Glazers avoid revealing 2011-12 financial performance
• Figures expected to show a decline due to failings in Europe

Manchester United's Champions League final defeat against Barcelona in 2011 will be reflected in the accounts filed with the New York Stock Exchange. Photograph: Tom Jenkins for the Guardian
David Conn

The Glazer family's timing for floating Manchester United is facing criticism from some analysts who argue the Glazers are deliberately avoiding having to present United's expected decline in financial performance in 2011-12.
The Glazers have filed with the New York Stock Exchange, to float a Manchester United company registered in the Cayman Islands tax haven, United's financial accounts for the year before that, to 30 June 2011. United's income is expected to have suffered a significant decline last year, principally due to Sir Alex Ferguson's team being eliminated from the Champions League at the group stage, whereas in 2011 they earned €53m (£44m) from Uefa after reaching the final.
Presenting accounts more than 12 months old fails to comply with US Securities and Exchange Commission requirements, and United have had to apply for special dispensation to have the out-of date accounts allowed. In a letter dated 3 July, Edward Woodward, United's executive vice-chairman based in London, points out the accounts for United's most recent financial year, to 30 June 2012, are not overdue in the Cayman Islands – "its jurisdiction of incorporation" – or any other country. Having to present the 2011-12 accounts, Woodward claims in the letter, would be: "impractical and involve undue hardship" for United.
United spokesmen both at their Old Trafford offices and representing the Cayman Islands-registered company in New York are not commenting on any aspect of the proposed flotation until it is complete and declined to explain why the Glazers had chosen this timing for the float, and to deliver out-of-date accounts.
Owen Wild, deputy editor of International Finance Review, has criticised the timing, suggesting it is because United's financial performance in 2011-12 is likely to have been significantly worse than for 2010-11. "It is very often unnecessary to do this, and investors are rightly suspicious when companies do it," Wild said. "We have several times seen companies file out-of-date accounts, then when the more recent accounts come out, they show a decline in financial performance."
United's 2011-12 accounts are almost certain to show the club made less money than in 2010-11. That year, Ferguson's team won the Premier League and lost in the Champions League final at Wembley, to Barcelona. With full houses at Old Trafford regular and the team's success marketed for global sponsorships by a team Woodward oversees in the London office, United posted a record income of £331m in 2010-11. Despite paying interest and other finance costs of £53m on the debts, then standing at £459m, which the Glazers loaded on to United to buy the club, United returned a £12m profit in 2010-11.
The club's income from European competitions will be significantly reduced for the most recent season, when United were dismissed from the Europa League by a skilled Athletic Bilbao after their Champions League failure. Uefa are due to release figures on Friday for how much each club was paid for Champions and Europa League participation last season. United's payment can be expected to be around half that of the previous year. The club also missed the earnings from three knockout stage matches at Old Trafford, which are thought to bring in around £3m each.
Many United fans feel that last season was the one in which the debts loaded on to the club by the Glazers, now at £423m, finally started to bite into the performance of Ferguson's team. Its relative drop in fortunes will have dented the club's financial performance. Those figures are not the ones being presented to potential investors in Manchester United Ltd (Cayman Islands) in New York.