JM Mcr said:taconinja said:The Glazers haven't even guaranteed that dividends will be paid on these shares. You would basically be buying them on the hope that someday the Glazers would allow them to pay out.
You'd be buying them in the hope that the value of the club increases so you can sell on at a profit. Apparently it's not uncommon in the states for dividends not to be paid. End of the day there'd be little point the Glazers removing crippling interest payments to replace them with dividends (apart from the fact that, as the largest shareholder they'll profit personally from any dividend). I think the success of the IPO depends on them valuing the club realistically and being able to convince potential investors they can continue to grow the "company" in the manner they have since their leveraged buyout...
Remember when football used to just be about football!!
Get with it man. You're a media company not a football club. Selling digital content in Vietnam is now more important than winning things on the field.JM Mcr said:-- Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:44 am --
As for halcyon days, I'd settle for us once again being able to include the words football club on our crest :-(
JM Mcr said:This IPO is surely aimed at institutional, rather than individual investors...no real voting rights, no dividends so only incentive to buy is possibility of making a profit on future sale of shares. On that basis I don't really see how relevant the comment about "scum fans" is.samharris said:strongbowholic said:I've still got a nasty feeling there are enough people out there who will be willing to take up this IPO to a larege enough degree that gets them out of the shit.
Hope I'm wrong, just got a feeling though.
If they truly want the glazers out then no they wont..
But this is scum fans we are talking here.
With regards to the initial statement above, I agree that there may well be enough interest in the IPO to get the Glazers out of a bind. I'm no financial expert but surely anything that substantially reduces the current debt, and interest payments, even if not fully clearing them, substantially strengthens the Glazers position. Both the swiss rambler and andersred seem to think the IPO appears to be a good thing financially for Utd. Even taking account of last seasons European failure, Utd should post very healthy income figures for the year, commercial income being up on the previous year in the March 2012 accounts. That's not to say Utd's year end income won't be down overall but they should still have a pretty impressive income, and can presumably also point to the forthcoming increase in tv revenues.
I guess much will depend on the Glazers valuation but, assuming they give a realistic valuation, the IPO may well succeed. I hope I'm wrong as I'm sure the Glazers will only sell up once they think they've maximised their (??!! ) investment. If the flotation fails, leading to increasing interest payments/financial charges, it may hopefully encourage them to offload the club.
If it goes ahead then it will be underwritten, with the issuing banks agreeing to take up any unsold shares. So they either get all or nothing and if it's all they can wipe the debt out.strongbowholic said:So the best scenario for us, is an initial take up that gives them some, but not too much money and keeps the Glazers in place?
I don't want them wiping the debt out as it's hurting them. I also don't want the Glazers to sell up, wholesale in case an uber-rich businesman / ME royal wades in to rescue them.
If it goes ahead then it will be underwritten, with the issuing banks agreeing to take up any unsold shares. So they either get all or nothing and if it's all they can wipe the debt out.
If it fails then I reckon they're in so deep financilly that they have to sell up & it'll be a forced sale to save their skins. If they don't float or sell then they'll have to rape the club financially to keep their heads above water I reckon.
I know PB, I know.......... :-(Prestwich_Blue said:Get with it man. You're a media company not a football club. Selling digital content in Vietnam is now more important than winning things on the field.JM Mcr said:-- Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:44 am --
As for halcyon days, I'd settle for us once again being able to include the words football club on our crest :-(
It was my initial thought that this could be part of it. Him retiring with the debt in place and their cash pile severely depleted (as the 2012 accounts will reveal) will limit their options in attracting a decent new manager.flb said:Just a thought but does anybody think the timing of this has anything to do with the impending retirement of whisky features?
Even the yanks know how powerful a dynasty is-and how quickly it can crumble when a dynasty comes to an end.
Are they raising the funds now to safeguard there investment whilst the Ferguson bandwaggon still has some momentum?
JM Mcr said:This IPO is surely aimed at institutional, rather than individual investors...no real voting rights, no dividends so only incentive to buy is possibility of making a profit on future sale of shares. On that basis I don't really see how relevant the comment about "scum fans" is.samharris said:strongbowholic said:I've still got a nasty feeling there are enough people out there who will be willing to take up this IPO to a larege enough degree that gets them out of the shit.
Hope I'm wrong, just got a feeling though.
If they truly want the glazers out then no they wont..
But this is scum fans we are talking here.
With regards to the initial statement above, I agree that there may well be enough interest in the IPO to get the Glazers out of a bind. I'm no financial expert but surely anything that substantially reduces the current debt, and interest payments, even if not fully clearing them, substantially strengthens the Glazers position. Both the swiss rambler and andersred seem to think the IPO appears to be a good thing financially for Utd. Even taking account of last seasons European failure, Utd should post very healthy income figures for the year, commercial income being up on the previous year in the March 2012 accounts. That's not to say Utd's year end income won't be down overall but they should still have a pretty impressive income, and can presumably also point to the forthcoming increase in tv revenues.
I guess much will depend on the Glazers valuation but, assuming they give a realistic valuation, the IPO may well succeed. I hope I'm wrong as I'm sure the Glazers will only sell up once they think they've maximised their (??!! ) investment. If the flotation fails, leading to increasing interest payments/financial charges, it may hopefully encourage them to offload the club.