United thread 2020/21
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City_Sean
Well-Known Member
Gary Neville wanted United to get a bye into the cup final when City were hit with covid at the start of the season.
He's scum and has successfully deflected the attention away from the neanderthals yesterday.
Sky need to bin him off.
He's scum and has successfully deflected the attention away from the neanderthals yesterday.
Sky need to bin him off.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
that does seem to be the narrative being pushed in today's media - desperate to ensure no points are docked I assume
Grassland Blue
Well-Known Member
T
Begin next season with -9.
The root cause was the behaviour of the rag fans though, so it was a failure of the club to exercise control.
Points deduction would be appropriate imo.
Begin next season with -9.
The Rags on the CAF aren't happy.
They can't understand why we aren't supporting their protest.
They are thick aren't they!
Why would we support a protest against the Glazers. The best thing to happen to that horrible self-entitled club and fanbase.
F*** off you Rags c*nts!
I hope like every City fan the Glazers never sell United, keep piling the debt on, keep on milky United dry, and keep the trophy-less seasons going.
F*cking, plastic, glory hunting, tw@ts from everywhere but Manchester.
www.redcafe.net
They can't understand why we aren't supporting their protest.
They are thick aren't they!
Why would we support a protest against the Glazers. The best thing to happen to that horrible self-entitled club and fanbase.
F*** off you Rags c*nts!
I hope like every City fan the Glazers never sell United, keep piling the debt on, keep on milky United dry, and keep the trophy-less seasons going.
F*cking, plastic, glory hunting, tw@ts from everywhere but Manchester.
Bluemoon goes into Meltdown
It was a pathetic turnout from them, the so-called biggest club in Manchester, absolute nonsense. The media won't talk about it but their owners were right there with the rest of them, they're in the same bag. This! City fans know their only chance of success is having owners like theirs. Any...
www.redcafe.net
Last edited:
Blootoof
Well-Known Member
Red talking sense:
"A rare voice of reason, I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the obvious flaws in the current situation and people's frenzy. I see the protesting fanbase is generally split in two camps:
a) A benevolent billionaire to take over the Glazers and make us the highest spending club in the world. This implies either the new owner would pump their own money into the club, beyond the price of acquiring it, which I imagine fans won't be happy with a leveraged buy-out, like the Glazers did, or they don't take dividends, which is the other huge gripe with the current owners. It just begs the question, why would any billionaire spend £4-5bn of their money in buying a huge asset that won't make them any money unless they decide to sell it? Some would say "for the brand power and recognition" and I would answer that if a person is able to spend £4bn on a football club, they have enough power. The only other legitimate reason I could think of is to legitimise their business and persona. Like a Saudi crown prince, Chinese tycoon or some ex-USSR fossil fuels magnate.
b) The 50%+1 ownership model where the club would be "owned" by its supporters. I think people haven't really thought about this one at all. First of all, in order for the ownership to change from Glazers to XXXXX amount of supporters, the latter need to come up with the money to buy the 50%+1 share off the Glazer family and partners. I really, really, really doubt people could come up with that kind of money. Let's make a mental math exercise:
But ok, let's assume even that actually happens. What then? The club is 50%+1 owned by the supporters. That means club management need to be elected on mandates. So, we enter the world of politics, populism, promises and consequences beyond the end of the current mandate. I urge people to read more on the reasons why Real Madrid and Barcelona are in dire financial state right now. It has a lot to do with the key words I underlined in the previous sentence.
Then some point to the German ownership model and more specifically to Bayern Munchen. Again, I suggest people do some reading on the topic and also understand that such a model exists in specific circumstances where it is the norm with very few exceptions (Bayern themselves can be counted as exception, RB Leipzig are another one) and to even consider it possible in the UK, it would mean ALL clubs must transition to a 50%+1 ownership model. I don't want to say that's impossible but it's damn close to it.
So, what does that leave us with? Violent, angry and loud protesters who are such a small fraction of the club's fanbase that if they weren't violent nobody would even notice them. Other are Social Media heroes who post angry messages with hashtags and support to ideas they generally do not understand.
I believe the owners, the staff, the players and the PL will all want this to end very soon because it is, at best, an unnecessary nuissance, or at worst, an attempt to set a very dangerous precedent where private property ownership is challenged by rioting consumers and is the football's equivalent of the Capitol Hill insurrection. What's next? Overthrow the Coca-Cola Company management because Coke consumers do not like their advertising model?
What do I think is going to happen? The club will invite several protester representatives to "constructive dialogue talks" which will take place for a while and then they will create a new structure within the club for something like "supporter stakeholder supervision" which will be sold as a reasonable compromise as the owners have listened to fans and have taken actions to ensure their voice continues to be heard and is part of the club going forward.
----------------------
One small thing I forgot to add:
The reason why Neville, Carragher and the whole pleiad of Sky and BT pundits are supporting the protests now and are emphasizing on the Super League as "the stroke that broke the camel's back" is not because they are defenders of the game. It is because the Super League model would render their jobs worthless if the Premier League and Champions League are no longer the top competitions. They understand that very well and their employers have certainly made it abundantly clear of the existential threat there.
They (and many other people) are quoting arguments that are at best wishful thinking, and in reality just naivety. Even on here, people have been dreaming for a competition a lot like the Super League for decades and are too blinded by their collective mob anger now to really consider the facts. Sure, a reserved seat at the table doesn't sound right. But will it affect competitiveness? You could ask the NBA/NHL/NFL stars that question. Or maybe someone thinks those are not the top leagues in the world when it comes to basketball/hockey/American football?
But I digress, this is not about the Super League. I don't particularly care about it, I've always been a fan of the Premier League first and foremost and would be happy if the Super League never comes to fruition. But it is about the protests and the Glazers (who, by the way, also own the current NFL Super Bowl winners..). And the media who are being incredibly irresponsible in defending violent and criminal behavior. Some of the things Neville, Carragher, Keane and Richards said yesterday in the studio should be reviewed and threated as inciting an angry mob, in my opinion. And the worst part is they're doing it out of self-interest, not any love for the game. But people are too angry to see it."
www.redcafe.net
"A rare voice of reason, I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the obvious flaws in the current situation and people's frenzy. I see the protesting fanbase is generally split in two camps:
a) A benevolent billionaire to take over the Glazers and make us the highest spending club in the world. This implies either the new owner would pump their own money into the club, beyond the price of acquiring it, which I imagine fans won't be happy with a leveraged buy-out, like the Glazers did, or they don't take dividends, which is the other huge gripe with the current owners. It just begs the question, why would any billionaire spend £4-5bn of their money in buying a huge asset that won't make them any money unless they decide to sell it? Some would say "for the brand power and recognition" and I would answer that if a person is able to spend £4bn on a football club, they have enough power. The only other legitimate reason I could think of is to legitimise their business and persona. Like a Saudi crown prince, Chinese tycoon or some ex-USSR fossil fuels magnate.
b) The 50%+1 ownership model where the club would be "owned" by its supporters. I think people haven't really thought about this one at all. First of all, in order for the ownership to change from Glazers to XXXXX amount of supporters, the latter need to come up with the money to buy the 50%+1 share off the Glazer family and partners. I really, really, really doubt people could come up with that kind of money. Let's make a mental math exercise:
- Let's say 50% of the club are currently worth £2bn
- Let's assume willing supporters organise and are willing to attempt buying off that 50% share and the total amount of those is 100,000 (this is being very, very, very optimistic)
- 2,000,000,000 divided by 100,000 = £20,000 per supporter
But ok, let's assume even that actually happens. What then? The club is 50%+1 owned by the supporters. That means club management need to be elected on mandates. So, we enter the world of politics, populism, promises and consequences beyond the end of the current mandate. I urge people to read more on the reasons why Real Madrid and Barcelona are in dire financial state right now. It has a lot to do with the key words I underlined in the previous sentence.
Then some point to the German ownership model and more specifically to Bayern Munchen. Again, I suggest people do some reading on the topic and also understand that such a model exists in specific circumstances where it is the norm with very few exceptions (Bayern themselves can be counted as exception, RB Leipzig are another one) and to even consider it possible in the UK, it would mean ALL clubs must transition to a 50%+1 ownership model. I don't want to say that's impossible but it's damn close to it.
So, what does that leave us with? Violent, angry and loud protesters who are such a small fraction of the club's fanbase that if they weren't violent nobody would even notice them. Other are Social Media heroes who post angry messages with hashtags and support to ideas they generally do not understand.
I believe the owners, the staff, the players and the PL will all want this to end very soon because it is, at best, an unnecessary nuissance, or at worst, an attempt to set a very dangerous precedent where private property ownership is challenged by rioting consumers and is the football's equivalent of the Capitol Hill insurrection. What's next? Overthrow the Coca-Cola Company management because Coke consumers do not like their advertising model?
What do I think is going to happen? The club will invite several protester representatives to "constructive dialogue talks" which will take place for a while and then they will create a new structure within the club for something like "supporter stakeholder supervision" which will be sold as a reasonable compromise as the owners have listened to fans and have taken actions to ensure their voice continues to be heard and is part of the club going forward.
----------------------
One small thing I forgot to add:
The reason why Neville, Carragher and the whole pleiad of Sky and BT pundits are supporting the protests now and are emphasizing on the Super League as "the stroke that broke the camel's back" is not because they are defenders of the game. It is because the Super League model would render their jobs worthless if the Premier League and Champions League are no longer the top competitions. They understand that very well and their employers have certainly made it abundantly clear of the existential threat there.
They (and many other people) are quoting arguments that are at best wishful thinking, and in reality just naivety. Even on here, people have been dreaming for a competition a lot like the Super League for decades and are too blinded by their collective mob anger now to really consider the facts. Sure, a reserved seat at the table doesn't sound right. But will it affect competitiveness? You could ask the NBA/NHL/NFL stars that question. Or maybe someone thinks those are not the top leagues in the world when it comes to basketball/hockey/American football?
But I digress, this is not about the Super League. I don't particularly care about it, I've always been a fan of the Premier League first and foremost and would be happy if the Super League never comes to fruition. But it is about the protests and the Glazers (who, by the way, also own the current NFL Super Bowl winners..). And the media who are being incredibly irresponsible in defending violent and criminal behavior. Some of the things Neville, Carragher, Keane and Richards said yesterday in the studio should be reviewed and threated as inciting an angry mob, in my opinion. And the worst part is they're doing it out of self-interest, not any love for the game. But people are too angry to see it."
Fans who were against today's protests
I am sad a few people attracted the attention the wrong way, but I think there should be effort to try to give as much spotlight as possible to the majority of the people who were there to send a strong message. I don't know what is the right answer, I don't think anyone has £4b to spend on a...
www.redcafe.net
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Airbags Optional
Guest
Something has to be done as they have shown their security is completely inappropriate for a large sporting venue and that is totally on their club
Brendan110_0
Well-Known Member
Police were all on holiday, tis a bank holiday weekend after all.
bluemoon32
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