United Thread - 2021/22

Status
Not open for further replies.
The pub I was in last night was full of rags celebrating like they’d won the champions league when the second went in last night. It was a fantastic sight to behold the mood turn when Villa equalised. They are a desperate, desperate club and fan base, I don’t think they have a clue who their next manager will be.
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
The pub I was in last night was full of rags celebrating like they’d won the champions league when the second went in last night. It was a fantastic sight to behold the mood turn when Villa equalised. They are a desperate, desperate club and fan base, I don’t think they have a clue who their next manager will be.
Click to expand...
They know who their next noodle partner will be. That’s what really matters.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Dwight Yorke by a country mile. I would say he’s is a moron in the clinical sense. Having met him, and been in his company for about an hour at a social event in Glasgow about 15 years ago, I speak with a level of personal experience on the matter. He is a palpably stupid man.


Don’t agree that Ferdinand is thick. Just because someone isn’t especially articulate doesn’t mean they are unintelligent. Some of the smartest people I’ve dealt with can barely read and write. Think Ferdinand expresses his thoughts in a far clearer and more coherent manner than Yorke, who isn’t capable of independent thought imo.

fwiw, would also say Owen, Beckham and Robson (who didn’t make your list) are discernibly thicker than Ferdinand. Far duller too, especially the first two who are sinfully dull.

Hargreaves, Fletcher and Keane shouldn’t be in there (again imo) as they are relatively bright.
Click to expand...
Agree on Yorke.

I didn't say you have to be articulate to be smart, just that his judgement was terrible. Judgement is an indicator of intellect or lack thereof too. I can't consider someone who thinks Ronaldo is the best player of all time intelligent (especially when he's clearly not strong willed enough to remove his own bias as his mate when making the call). Or someone who's wrong as often as Ferdinand is.

Hargreaves, Fletcher and Keane don't seem bright to me. Yes they can put together sentences, but again they have terrible football opinions. Being able to express thoughts doesn't mean those opinions are logical. For instance, many people who posted on Stomfront before it was shut down were extremely knowledgeable and articulate, but were they intelligent? Look at the content of their opinions, they are articulate but if they were that bright they wouldn't be racists in the first place would they? They had extremely stupid opinions which to the gullible came across as intelligent because they had the gift of the gab. The oldest trick in the book politically. Likewise, Fletcher or Hargreaves might be able to express themselves fairly well but it doesn't change the fact that Fletcher's an awful coach and his opinions when he was a pundit were sketchy to say the least and purely informed by his narrow-minded 'MUFC, what would Ferguson do?' world view. This is the problem with all these ex United players - they view United and non United football matters through the prism of their narrow experience of being a Man United player. They don't have a frame of reference in terms of football other than that. It's all they know, which is why so many Ferguson acolytes make dogshit managers. They try to copy his outdated ideas and fail miserably.

Gary Neville is quite a good and free flowing talker but the content of his opinions is generally repugnant and, again, everything he thinks is informed by agenda and his United in the 90s world view and experience.

If Keane is bright how come he completely lacks emotional intelligence and was unable to make it as a manager? You'd think he'd have had some good methods. Although this might be a flawed point because Frank Lampard is apparently very intelligent yet he's proved to be a mediocre manager so far.

Overall, it matters very little to me whether Ferdinand or any of these other pricks are intelligent or unintelligent. What I have a problem with is they're paid to talk football and constantly talk bollocks and get things wrong. They're the champions of hindsight, even if they have a 798 IQ.
 
Last edited:
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Dwight Yorke by a country mile. I would say he is a moron in the clinical sense. Having met him, and been in his company for about an hour at a social event in Glasgow about 15 years ago, I speak with a level of personal experience on the matter. He is a palpably stupid man.

Don’t agree that Ferdinand is thick. Just because someone isn’t especially articulate doesn’t mean they are unintelligent. Some of the smartest people I’ve dealt with can barely read and write. Think Ferdinand expresses his thoughts in a far clearer and more coherent manner than Yorke, who isn’t capable of independent thought imo.

fwiw, would also say Owen, Beckham and Robson (who didn’t make your list) are discernibly thicker than Ferdinand. Far duller too, especially the first two who are sinfully dull.

Hargreaves, Fletcher and Keane shouldn’t be in there (again imo) as they are relatively bright.
Click to expand...

Yea Ferdinand might be smarter than those you mentioned but he wasnt smarter than the doping authority :) which he thought he was
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
They know who their next noodle partner will be. That’s what really matters.
Click to expand...
While that is true, they also know that game after game they'll be gifted goals (or just points) by their opponents.
Their first yesterday was shite keeping their second was gifted by Villa's defence. You could argue we were gifted a similar one at Villa a couple of seasons ago but we were five-one up at the time so it was hardly relevant. But how often do you hear teams should be two, three or four up against the rags yet it's still 0-0? Too many opponents still shit the bed when facing them. A rag colleague admitted De Gea was worth 30 points a season to them which showed how bad the rest of the team were; I'd guess incompetent opponents contribute another 30 points.
We laugh at them, we see how shite they are, but they were equally shite last season yet finished second, reached a semi-final and were runners up in the Thursday League.
The tick has tocked for many, but I won't agree until their league position reflects their shiteness.
 
DC1982 said:
They were the ultimate kings of pressing for a whopping 30 minutes against Palace. Truly, it was like watching prime Barca all over again. They keep asking why they haven't replicated it since and can't do it again? I too am staggered that an unfit team of lazy overrated deluded prima donnas in their first game under a new manager can press hard for half an hour but can't keep doing it when the honeymoon is over and there are another 5 months of the season left, rather than doing it for just that 30 minute period. It is mind-boggling really, what a conundrum. I don't think we can solve this.
Click to expand...
A bit like when we signed Mcminimum and he looked good, but that was only for about 20 mins!
 
DC1982 said:
Agree on Yorke.

I didn't say you have to be articulate to be smart, just that his judgement was terrible. Judgement is an indicator of intellect or lack thereof too. I can't consider someone who thinks Ronaldo is the best player of all time intelligent (especially when he's clearly not strong willed enough to remove his own bias as his mate when making the call). Or someone who's wrong as often as Ferdinand is.

Hargreaves, Fletcher and Keane don't seem bright to me. Yes they can put together sentences, but again they have terrible football opinions. Being able to express thoughts doesn't mean those opinions are logical. For instance, many people who posted on Stomfront before it was shut down were extremely knowledgeable and articulate, but were they intelligent? Look at the content of their opinions, they are articulate but if they were that bright they wouldn't be racists in the first place would they? They had extremely stupid opinions which to the gullible came across as intelligent because they had the gift of the gab. The oldest trick in the book politically. Likewise, Fletcher or Hargreaves might be able to express themselves fairly well but it doesn't change the fact that Fletcher's an awful coach and his opinions when he was a pundit were sketchy to say the least.

If Keane is bright how come he completely lacks emotional intelligence and was unable to make it as a manager? You'd think he'd have had some good methods. Although this might be a flawed point because Frank Lampard is apparently very intelligent yet he's proved to be a mediocre manager so far.
Click to expand...
Fuck me you can type fast!

We’re probably going to engage in some satellite litigation here, but intelligent people are perfectly capable of exercising poor judgement in terms of football, or more widely. I’ve encountered many intelligent people who repeatedly display poor judgement. Not sure I’d necessarily conflate the two. Plenty of people I know who aren’t that bright habitually exercise good judgement too. Alhough, I guess judgement is definitely a form of intelligence, so on that basis you have a point. It’s a complicated debate, as the human brain is such a complex organ.

Also profoundly disagree that being racist and intelligent are mutually exclusive. Lamentably, plenty of intelligent people are racist. They are the dangerous ones.

I’m not sue I’d agree that Keane completely lacks emotional intelligence, but even if he did it’s a separate metric imo. And I consciously said ‘relatively intelligent’. Wouldn’t describe him as intelligent without that caveat. Not within the context of my own personal experience at least.

Lastly, I also think there’s an arguable case for Ronaldo being the greatest footballer of all time, given his track record and physique at his prime. He’d certainly make my best XI. Not sure if that makes me a bit thick.

Not for me to say, I guess…
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Fuck me you can type fast!

We’re probably going to engage in some satellite litigation here, but intelligent people are perfectly capable of exercising poor judgement in terms of football, or more widely. I’ve encountered many intelligent people who repeatedly display poor judgement. Not sure I’d necessarily conflate the two. Plenty of people I know who aren’t that bright habitually exercise good judgement. Plenty of ridiculously clever ones I know who don’t. Alhough, I guess judgement is definitely a form of intelligence, so on that basis you have a point. It’s a complicated debate, as the human brain is such a complex organ.

Also profoundly disagree that being racist and intelligent are mutually exclusive. Lamentably, plenty of intelligent people are racist. They are the dangerous ones.

I’m not sue I’d agree that Keane completely lacks emotional intelligence, but even if he did it’s a separate metric imo. And I consciously said ‘relatively intelligent’. Wouldn’t describe him as intelligent without that caveat. Not within the context of my own personal experience at least.

Lastly, I also think there’s an arguable case for Ronald being the greatest footballer of all time, given his track record and physique at his prime. He’d certainly make my best XI. Not sure if that makes me a bit thick.

Not for me to say, I guess…
Click to expand...
It is cos I am on my keyboard at my PC, not a phone or tablet.

Fair enough on all that. You make good points and I am not arrogant enough to think I can't be wrong.

As for Ronaldo, I just don't see how you can say that. You don't rate a player based on his track record (Pele has three more world cups than him and Gento has one more European Cup than him, so trophies and stats mean little to me, most of his accolades are down to longevity, which he deserves praise for) and 'physique', it isn't athletics or a spreadsheet. You rate them based on their talent, intelligence, dribbling, passing, genius factor etc. Ronaldo even in his prime had loads of games where he masked doghsit performances with goals. You can call him the greatest goalscorer of all time, but he's not even close to being the greatest FOOTBALLER of all time, given his passing, dribbling, playmaking and combination play (which are all more important and frequently used skills in football than heading or penalties) are light years behind many players, not just Messi. I mean the **** can barely control a ball these days, I can't remember Pele or Maradona ever struggling to control a ball even on shit pitches with heavy boots. Maradona even when pissed and coked up to the eyeballs could do with an orange with C Ronaldo can't do with a football. C Ronaldo also takes more shots than anyone in football so he's more of a volume law of averages shooter than a clinical finisher, and has been for many years.

Can you honestly tell me C Ronaldo is a better dribbler, passer or playmaker than guys like Messi, maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Zidane, L Ronaldo etc? Take away his goals and there's not much there really. Even in his prime he wasn't a stand out dribbler, he was a kick and run dribbler really. Take away Messi's goals and you still have one of the best dribblers, passers and playmakers of all time.

As far as I am concerned, calling C Ronaldo 'arguably the greatest footballer of all time' when many players are better dribblers, free kick takers, infinitely better passers short and long (has C Ronaldo ever played a crossfield pass? )is wildly overrating the lad. He's an unbelievable goalscorer (although probably done more stat padding than anyone else since about 1960) but in terms of sheer footballing genius and x factor he falls behind many. For the last 7 or 8 years, which includes the most successful period of his career trophy wise, he has basically played as a poacher relying on service. I can't rate players like that as better than one man wrecking crews like Messi or L Ronaldo or Maradona.

I don't care about his physique because running fast, jumping high, having a six pack (which in his case is pointless as he never pressed in his life and would rather fall over than use strength most of the time) are athletic skills. They're not rare, they are things that are common to many people. But being able to dribble like Messi or Maradona, or pass like Michael Laudrup? Now that is uncommon beauty and genius.

If you go through Ronaldo and Messi's almost equal amount of goals, which one do you think scored goals which were of a higher degree of difficulty and more aesthetically pleasing more often? Ronaldo has so many tap ins, one on ones, headers, penalties over his career. Nothing wrong with that but his genuine amazing goals and what the fuck moments pale in comparison to an alien like Messi. And I don't like Messi, he's a prick, but he IS miles better as a footballer than Ronaldo and 99 per cent of people within football agree with me (yes it is the appeal to authority fallacy but humour me).

As you can see, I am a romantic, not a statistician.
 
Last edited:
DC1982 said:
Fair enough on all that. You make good points and I am not arrogant enough to think I can't be wrong.

As for Ronaldo, I just don't see how you can say that. You don't rate a player based on his track record (Pele has three more world cups than him and Gento has one more European Cup than him, so trophies and stats mean little to me) and 'physique', it isn't athletics or a spreadsheet. You rate them based on their talent, intelligence, dribbling, passing, genius factor etc. Ronaldo even in his prime had loads of games where he masked doghsit performances with goals. You can call him the greatest goalscorer of all time, but he's not even close to being the greatest FOOTBALLER of all time, given his passing, dribbling, playmaking and combination play (which are all more important and frequently used skills in football than heading or penalties) are light years behind many players, not just Messi. I mean the **** can barely control a ball these days, I can't remember Pele or Maradona ever struggling to control a ball even on shit pitches with heavy boots. Maradona even when pissed and coked up to the eyeballs could do with an orange with C Ronaldo can't do with a football. C Ronaldo also takes more shots than anyone in football so he's more of a volume law of averages shooter than a clinical finisher, and has been for many years.

Can you honestly tell me C Ronaldo is a better dribbler, passer or playmaker than guys like Messi, maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Zidane, L Ronaldo etc? Take away his goals and there's not much there really. Take away Messi's goals and you still have one of the best dribblers, passers and playmakers of all time.

As far as I am concerned, calling C Ronaldo 'arguably the greatest footballer of all time' is wildly overrating the lad. He's an unbelievable goalscorer (although probably done more stat padding than anyone else since about 1960) but in terms of sheer footballing genius he falls behind many.

I don't care about his physique because running fast, jumping high, having a six pack (which in his case is pointless as he never pressed in his life and would rather fall over than use strength most of the time) are athletic skills. They're not rare, they are things that are common to many people. But being able to dribble like Messi or Maradona, or pass like Michael Laudrup? Now that is uncommon beauty and genius.
Click to expand...
To dismiss physique out of hand conspicuously ignores the role that speed, stamina and strength contribute towards the make up of a great player. They are just as important, collectively, as skill, and at his prime he possessed all three to the exclusion of all others. It’s crazy to discount those factors when evaluating someone’s status as a footballer. They are central components.


I would also add, that he was, and remains a highly skilful player, otherwise I wouldn’t be engaging in this debate. To suggest he is not a highly skillful player seems a bit daft.
 
Newman Noggs said:
Surely united must be thinking Rio Ferdinand as their next manager. He was influential in negotiating Ole's full-time contract and persuaded the legend that is Ronaldo that he should return to united when the media thought his head had been turned. The man's a shoe-in.
Click to expand...
That really would be the cherry on the cake. Would suit his continued quest for reality TV induced stardom.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
To dismiss physique out of hand conspicuously ignores the role that speed, stamina and strength contribute towards the make up of a great player. They are just as important, collectively, as skill, and at his prime he possessed all three to the exclusion of all others. It’s crazy to discount those factors when evaluating someone’s status as a footballer. They are central components.


I would also add, that he was, and remains a highly skilful player, otherwise I wouldn’t be engaging in this debate. To suggest he is not a highly skillful player seems a bit daft.
Click to expand...
No they're not, they matter as a player but they're more common to average players than anything Messi does. Any talentless twat can become a great athlete, it's a leveller but it will never make someone a great FOOTBALLER. You know, technique, passing, dribbling. It makes them an athlete. Theo Walcott etc. Obviously Ronaldo is far better than him but I am taking your flawed point to its most extreme conclusion. The only way fitness improves technique is through being sharper and tiring less quickly so retaining your maximum level of technique longer in a game or season.

Call him highly skilful all you like, it doesn't change the fact that he constantly passes to the opposition these days, has a dogshit first touch, can't dribble. Now, he was better in his prime admittedly. He was passable at these things, but you called him the GREATEST FOOTBALLER OF ALL TIME. There's a massive chasm between being a decent or ok passer or dribbler and being the best of all time, lol. Answer this question - is Ronaldo a better passer or dribbler than Messi, Maradona, pele, L Ronaldo or Zidane? Does he have more flair than those players? yes or no. the answer to me is a resounding 'fuck no!!'

You can say he remains a highly skilful player all you like, but watch him play and the ball bounces off him as often as it does Lukaku and he looks so stiff and robotic on the ball. I think you're just lazily repeating things because he's considered one of the best players ever so you don't wanna analyse his game properly. He offers nothing outside the box and has been playing as a poacher for years, benefitting off others hard work. He's also by far the biggest offender I have ever seen of improving his stats to the detriment of the team's well being, especially in recent years. He's really not skilful any more at all, and even if he was, he can't lace Messi, pele, Maradona, Zidane's boots in terms of sheer footballing talent outside of goalscoring, so based on the claim you made, it's irrelevant even if he was highly skilful. Being apparently very skilful doesn't make him Maradona, who was a genius and an alien.

Sorry, but saying he's a better footballer than Maradona and Messi is so far wrong I don't know where to start. You're miles off. Better goalscorer fair enough. But not footballer.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top