United Thread - 2023/24

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While I am enjoying the gift that keeps on giving of their season, the expectation/hope of a lot of people that they can't recover from this position for 10 years could well be misplaced.

There are a number of parallels with Newcastle, albeit on a different scale. Newcastle were owned for more than 10 years by a non-football person/organisation who regarded the club from a purely business perspective. They were happy to milk the club for cash and profit with no understanding of club history, football ambition or fan sensibility. As a result, performances and the football infrastructure were always maintained at a level just high enough to keep revenues acceptable, but with no real strategic plan to achieve footballing excellence. I would contend that the same has been true at United. And of course for that we, from the outside, have been heartily grateful.

Those 10+ years have fundamentally changed the culture built up over the previous 30ish years, of demanding (and getting) excellence on the pitch and around the wider club, resulting in regular trophies. It is to some extent a virtuous circle and one we are currently benefitting from. They have lost every single trace of that culture, so have had to try to attract managers and players with money, and telling an emotional story about what the club means that has now become a fiction.

Now, to go back to Newcastle. I don't think anyone can say that the change of ownership has not had a fundamental change of culture at the club. It comes from the owners sincerely believing in where it wants to go, when it wants to realistically get there, and how it sensibly does it. The change in Newcastle was almost instantaneous - employing the right people behind the scenes, putting together a plan and sticking to it. There have been bumps, but I bet if we had access to Newcastle's time schedule for development and achievement we would see that they are right on course.

Newcastle started lower than United at the point of their ownership change, and United's goals will probably be targeted sooner. So, if, and it is a massive if, United get their shit together under Scruffy and Brailsford we might be disappointingly surprised at their rate of recovery.

But it will be fun to watch them try and clean out the pigsty first.
Newcastle have had a complete change of ownership.

UMS is still at the swamp, albeit having sold 25% to scruffy Jim..

I just don’t see any parallels at all.
 
But wouldn't a good manager find a way to drill something into them? It's nearly the end of the season, he has had time. How do we know they're just not poor instructions, rather than it being a case of the players not following them? That's only his words.

Look at the turnaround from Gerrard to Emery at Villa. I'm sure Gerrard would tell you he was giving them instructions and they weren't carrying them out, because he isn't going to say he was giving poor instructions is he? - yet a good manager clearly got the same players to follow instructions no bother.

Of course players should take some blame. Decent players should at least be able to organise themselves on a pitch. I just think when it's going on for months and months, it's mostly poor coaching, instructions and management.

Good managers find a way to get them following instructions, regardless of if they're good or bad instructions.

Possibly. I think they don't like him he doesn't come across as a likeable bloke or one to instill confidence. In fairness to the rags they are decimates with injuries as well.
 
“This is the fourth defeat in this calendar year, so that's not a lot”.

What the…?

Is there any manager in the entire league more adept at making utter crap sound, well… sort of ok?
On those grounds alone, if I were Ratcliffe, I'd want him out, and no matter the cost. Ten Hag should be raging. He shouldn't be dressing it up, using fending language, — he should simply be raging. With himself to start with, and then work from there.
The fact that Ratcliffe'll probably stick with him is symbolic of how incredibly badly that club has been run, when you look at the resources they've got, and for years now.

Mind you, I wish Carragher would shut his gob a bit in all of this, instead of using United to deflect from the reality that his own club — who he makes no pretence of not supporting, unprofessional as that is when you're hired as a sort of tv analyst, and addressing all kinds of publics, and not just feral dippers — has failed this season, and failed pretty heavily.
 
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