US & Israel attack Iran

moomba said:
No its not their fault and I suspect that those countries that dont involve themselves in or support bombing Iran wont have an issue getting ships through.

It will still have an impact on them through increased price of oil but I cant blame Iran for doing what they need to stop the bombing of their country.

Economic measure seems to be the best way.
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Well, China had three ships warned to turn back this morning. A Thai tanker was attacked last week. It's just hostage-taking.
 
PragueBlue said:
Surely even Trump can't be dumb enough to send US troops in.
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He can. I believe the ten day reprieve is to allow the yanks to rearm and get troops to the area.

If he does go in, I think that will be his undoing as planes full of body bags return to the US will see the US populace go after his head
 
Nightmare Walking said:
You missed the bit where it says Iran is not party to the convention.
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You missed the part, literally in the same sentence, where it said the obligations are customary law. The Somali pirates didn't sign UNCLOS either, it still applies to them.
 
WT86 said:
It is, but legally it is still an international strait and they don't have the right to close it to shipping.

Link
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This is a pretty meaningless discussion because the fact is every single country in the world that was attacked in an illegal war by people who openly brag about wanting to destroy the entire country would do the exact same thing.

Do you think we would let people through the English Channel if we were being bombed from France and the Netherlands? Like fuck we would.
 
WT86 said:
You missed the part, literally in the same sentence, where it said the obligations are customary law. The Somali pirates didn't sign UNCLOS either, it still applies to them.
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Iran are not part of the convention. They agreed to go along with it, but now they have changed their mind because some idiot decided to bomb them.
Its their waters and they are not signed up to any convention. They can do whatever they want.
 
?
WT86 said:
Well, China had three ships warned to turn back this morning. A Thai tanker was attacked last week. It's just hostage-taking.
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And since then Iran have said that countries that are not involved with USA and Israel will be able to pass freely.
 
WT86 said:
The war is a disaster and in a better world Trump and Netanyahu would be called to account for it. That doesn't change the fact Iran doesn't have the right to respond in the way it has. It's not China or New Zealand's fault or the fault of a tanker full of people trying to do their jobs. If they want to retaliate against the belligerents, i.e. the US and Israel, have at it.
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You haven't answered my post so I'll ask again.
Was it legally or moraly right to bomb a school and murder over a hundred children?
Iran did not start this war, they are merely fighting back.
If you want the Straits open, get the worlds politicians to tell Trump and Netanyahu they are war criminals.

And then arrest them
 
domalino said:
This is a pretty meaningless discussion because the fact is every single country in the world that was attacked in an illegal war by people who openly brag about wanting to destroy the entire country would do the exact same thing.

Do you think we would let people through the English Channel if we were being bombed from France and the Netherlands? Like fuck we would.
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Neutral shipping was allowed through the Channel when the Nazis occupied those countries (under very close watch and frequent inspection), so yeah I do. The Channel wasn't a nice place to be but the RN didn't just blow neutrals out of the water.
 
WT86 said:
You missed the part, literally in the same sentence, where it said the obligations are customary law. The Somali pirates didn't sign UNCLOS either, it still applies to them.
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Where's the bit about bombing schools and killing over a hundred children. I must have missed it.
 
WT86 said:
Neutral shipping was allowed through the Channel when the Nazis occupied those countries (under very close watch and frequent inspection), so yeah I do. The Channel wasn't a nice place to be but the RN didn't just blow neutrals out of the water.
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Neutral shipping is being allowed through.

They’ve allowed ships from Greece, Turkey, Thailand, Malaysia, South Korea, China, Russia, India, Pakistan, Egypt, Iraq and Bangladesh through because those countries aren’t party to the war against them. They are in talks with Spain, Italy and France.

They’re not going to allow ships heading to or owned by the US, UK, or any GCC country through because they’re openly part of the war against them.

I would guess if the current standoff continues, ie Trump delaying invasion, we will see more and more ships from countries with agreements with Iran go through.

Of course if Trump invades then it will remain shut because it’ll be part of a war zone with US navy vessels attacking and being attacked.
 
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domalino said:
Neutral shipping is being allowed through.

They’ve allowed ships from Greece, Turkey, Thailand, Malaysia, South Korea, China, Russia, India, Pakistan, Egypt, Iraq and Bangladesh through because those countries aren’t party to the war against them. They are in talks with Spain, Italy and France.

They’re not going to allow ships heading to or owned by the US, UK, or any GCC country through because they’re openly part of the war against them.
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If they start allowing neutral shipping through then there's no issue. That would be a smart move since it reduces the need for the rest of the world to intervene to restore freedom of navigation and avoid shortages. That's not where we are right now however.
 
WT86 said:
If they start allowing neutral shipping through then there's no issue. That would be a smart move since it reduces the need for the rest of the world to intervene to restore freedom of navigation and avoid shortages. That's not where we are right now however.
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Realistically the rest of the world is not going to intervene militarily for the foreseeable future

You cannot force open a strait that’s 20 miles wide without invading and occupying the entirety of South Iran, and no one is prepared to send thousands of their people to die for Trump and Netanyahu’s war of choice. If it were a case of simply sailing over with a coalition armada and forcing it open with warships then it would be happening already.
 
WT86 said:
If they start allowing neutral shipping through then there's no issue. That would be a smart move since it reduces the need for the rest of the world to intervene to restore freedom of navigation and avoid shortages. That's not where we are right now however.
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Primarily down to decades of interventions by your governments. Maybe it was inevitable that one day the rabid warmongers within your political elite would end up with a president dumb enough to go along with this insanity.

Not attributing blame here but if you can't even acknowledge the barbarity that your tax dollars pay for you are in no position to moralise about international norms.
Blue Mist said:
Where's the bit about bombing schools and killing over a hundred children. I must have missed it.
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More concerned about illegal blockades causing shortages .... wait till he hears about Cuba ;-)
 
The Stockport Iniesta said:
The leader of the "free world", who's as thick as he is crass. How did it happen?

I still can't get my head around how someone who is certifiably insane has become the most powerful person on the planet.
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Voted for by the serially stupid masses who clearly can't differentiate bluster and bullshit as opposed to truth and reality.
 
Just watching CH4 news and it all seems very ambiguous. It appears the oil markets don’t believe Trumps statements any longer so that tactic has been lost and Rubio admitting that they don’t know who they will be negotiating with. Meanwhile Iran’s oil revenue has increased by $20m a day due to the price rises. 2000 ships and all their crew stuck. Incredible really that two people have created this shitshow.
 
Postman Pep said:
Primarily down to decades of interventions by your governments. Maybe it was inevitable that one day the rabid warmongers within your political elite would end up with a president dumb enough to go along with this insanity.

Not attributing blame here but if you can't even acknowledge the barbarity that your tax dollars pay for you are in no position to moralise about international norms.

More concerned about illegal blockades causing shortages .... wait till he hears about Cuba ;-)
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What did you think I meant when I called the war a disaster and said Trump should be held to account?

I assume by "your governments" you're referencing both the US and the UK, given the long history of exploitation and interventionism by each. No argument here.
 
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